1 GOP Intra 'moon' T7 - Top Grading - Best Motion - Best Setting Ever? (You decide)

Update News (updated 21/07/2013) Two months after the experimental moon T6 and lots of new research I present you 'moon' T7.

UPDATE: Both variations of moon T7 (24p & 23.976p) are included in the one zip below. Both also include the slightly adjusted 720p60 for stability in iA modes (thanks @flaschus ).

• INTRA 24p minimum 130-147Mbps - best looking ever with extreme Quant values - period.

• INTRA 25p/FSH50i at 80Mbps.

• 3 GOP 30pHBR/FSH60i at 72Mbps+.

• 720p modes minimum 50-70Mbps max - best ever 720 setting? ;-)

• new softer matrix - targeted at Pany lenses.

• iA modes working it appears.

• iDynamic mode on 24p best on Low.

• Great sound from per (Per Lichtman of Pasadena Pulse AKA thepalalias!!!!) ;-)

• Includes the long-time best looking mjpeg setting and greatest Quant.

• Choose between setd 24p, 25p/50p, 30p & 60p or sete 23.976p, 25p/50p, 29.97p & 59.94p frame rates.

• Please don't forget to donate to personal-view and help this site continue.

An early version of moon T7 is on the other thread, just going over a few tiny little changes to improve iA mode stability - released here shortly.

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Here's Cluster X 'moon T5' and 'Nebula' in action courtesy of the boys at 'DeployAerial' ( @DeployAerial );-

6 GOP - Middle Earth 'Nebula'

'Nebula T7' (Released 24/07/2013) Including all recent findings in moon, even lower quantisation and improved GOP related stuff.

• 1080p24 at 86+Mbps avg

• 1080iFSH50/60/HBR25/30 at 50+Mbps

• 720p50/60 superior setting at 60Mbps - this could even beat moon's 720 modes for quality.

• new softer matrix - targeted at Pany lenses.

• iA modes working it appears.

• iDynamic mode on 24p best on Low.

• Great sound from Per Lichtman of Pasadena Pulse AKA @thepalalias

• Includes the long-time best looking mjpeg setting and greatest Quant.

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Here's an early 'Nebular' 6 GOP video courtesy of Ernesto Mántaras ( @charlie_orozco ) - Has anyone ever shot a video on Cluster X Nebular/ not many of you like GOP 6 it seems...? ;-

Latest News Here soon.

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@driftwood Here is a quick edit of the full moon over London filmed with Moon T7

ok Mr. driftwood, now create some magic for poor mans SD cards, i have SDXC 64GB Transcend....have i become annoying :\

@dado023 Did you try REDshift?

Yeah like GMG said the "blur" is kind of like step-printed slo mo, not motion blur per se.

@driftwood to be honest i didn't, is it stable :) ?

I shot my first tests of Moon Trial 7 today. I'm absolutely stunned!

This is without a doubt the best, smoothest, cleanest, most organic looking footage I've ever seen come out of my camera. Nick, you are a god!

Even at 1600 ISO, this is footage I could use without apology.

My only complaint is the motion cadence seems to be a bit...odd. Even at 1/50 shutter. (And in my work, I do often need to go down to 1/25, so this is something that concerns me.) It's not quite as 'flowing' as I'd expect, there's almost a 'stuttery' look to the footage, like a frame is being skipped every now and then, or like the shutter was actually set to 1/1000. Frame by frame playback reveals no anomalies. It might possibly be my system, so I'm burning a Blu-ray, but Moon T5 footage showed no such cadence weirdness on the same system, so we'll see.

@Jim_Simon I just tested moon trial 7c, and i'll have to agree with you. Quality is the best I"be seen out of the moon series. 1600iso looks really good. I'll make some better tests on the weekend. Thank you @driftwood Will be donating again soon!

@driftwood whatever "motion" issues I was having I really don't see anymore, original clip or YouTube, both look pretty much the same, now all I get is just NORMAL 1/50 24p motion blur as expected when shooting handheld ; )

@jim_simon is it 24 in 7a b and c? maybe it's one of the changes nick made to fix the "motion" issue

T7c recorded at 23.9 for me

So I made the Blu-ray...

This is hands down the best, most film-like image I've ever seen from my camera. And I actually think the 24 fps has something to do with it.

Watching film source, which is shot at exactly 24 fps, there is a smoothness to the motion that seems missing from video source, particularly with camera motion. If you watch a 23.976 video, there always seems to be a sort of shimmer in the details on pans and other camera movements, softening those details until the camera comes to rest, where they sharpen up again. Faster camera movement makes the shimmer more pronounced, but even with quite slow camera movement, it's still there to a degree.

That high frequency shimmer is largely missing from film content, even with faster camera motion, and I've often wondered if the difference is that film uses 24 fps, and video uses 23.976 fps. Looking at this 24 fps video, I'm fairly well convinced that is exactly the issue.

Once again, Nick, you are a god!

I can test the T7b and T7c too, but can't find them, where are their links?

Cluster X DrewNET T9 1080/24 screengrab example and elecard quantisation evaluation - amazing at this detail. Third pic: motion vectors going to a static at 720p50 DREWnet. Note i frames go huge! in Cluster X as the image comes to a standstill. With movement b frames become larger and i/p frames naturally compensate in size to the bitrate.

Excellent. Thankyou Katsu @bkmcwd

@Jim_Simon Yep just goto ptools, open the sete/24p moon T7 variation setting, then under the section titled 'GOP Related' in 'Patches for Testers' uncheck the GOPx2 Time for each of the ones you want to switch back to default - ie uncheck 720p60GOP x2 Time and 1080i60GOP x2 Time. Of course, don't uncheck the 1080p24GOPx2 Time. Then youre done. Save patch with shift to a new letter, then save firmware to sd card and flash your newly created firmware.

@Jim_Simon you're not going to love the 24P thing once you have to sync up to non-throw-away audio recorded on an external device. There's a reason 23.976 exists. It's called post production.

@burnetrhoades are you saying that the audio recorders record in 23.976 fps. never heard of it before.

Figured your were referring to drift. Thanks for heads up

lol... just make sure u pack the ol' sound devices so u can get the 48.048 k audio to match up..

no probs in post

Hi! I have not been updated since Cluster v.6_6 Nebular. Actually, I tried about 3 newer settings, but can't find any most stable settings without bugs for long recordings at all modes.

I'd like know if there are newer settings with same stability, no freezes, spanning at all modes and about 44Mb/s @24L and 88Mb/s @24H. (I use Sandisk 64GB 45MB/s and 95MB/s) You know, we can't risk with client's "one of the lifetime" event like wedding, so, no way for using trial settings. But I don't stack with this old settings. I've seen that only one new settings Red Shift "on paper" looks like Cluster v.6_6 Nebular. But almost nobody post here clips about Red Shift, is it better then Cluster v.6_6 Nebular? What new settings have same stability like Cluster v.6_6 Nebular and worst to update from it?

@act

Did you try Slipstream #1B? Worked great for me. My camera functioned like it was using stock firmware - but shoots at 3 times the bit rate of the highest stock setting on 24H. (72Mb/s I believe.) No freezes, playback in camera, spanning etc. etc. ALSO... worked fine on my SanDisk 30Mb/s 32GB card! Mr. Driftwood has taken care of just about everyone's needs. In my humble opinion.

You'll find it here...then go to page 1

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/6429/driftwood-clusterx-series-2moonЅrіzznebuladrewnetslipstream-redshift/p1

@driftwood is it really a 24p instead of 23.976?? how this became possible?? this may be a stupid question but if this is true do future hack can be set to 25p?? 24p in reality does it affect audio?? on conversion in 5drgb usually it does if i set 23.976 to 24. do this?

@driftwood.

What are the main advantages and disadvantages between MoonT7 and DREWnet T9?

@BurnetRhoades yes u r rite audio usually jumps when u convert 23.976p to 24p so, it must be true that camera might not get a sync audio record with the video. it might loose sync after 120 seconds hopefully. [.025x.1x10 = 40 second = 1 frame] every 40 seconds 23.976p mode drops a frame. but 24p mode doesn't. if the audio is 23.976 and video is 24 it will be on place for around 2 minutes [40x3 = 120]. after 2 minutes gradually the sync will be lost. the audio will be badly placed by the camera if the shot is over 6 minutes. i will sure use 24p mode if i am shooting a film and most shots are set to capture below 1 minute duration. @driftwood yes i understood but 24p is it possible to fix the audio to keep the audio and video sync for atleast 6 minutes??

@Maya The audio is baked into whatever the frame rate is set in the Cluster X setting. Do your test! Conversion to other frame rates is a different problem.

@BurnetRhoades

Film has been recording at exactly 24 fps with dual system sound for decades. I don't see how this will be a problem. 1 second of sound lasts 1 second, regardless of the frame rate of the video. (At least, it should.)

Aside from that, I'm accustomed to sync drift. Seems that every DV camera in the world can record at exactly the same rate, but for some reason audio devices vary wildly in their timing.

@Maya " if the audio is 23.976"

Audio isn't recorded as fps. The same 1 second of audio will sync perfectly to the same shot on video whether that video is recoded at 23.976, 24 exactly, 29.97 or 59.94.

@T1000 Traditionally if youre transferring to film you'll need to get it into 24 frames but many modern digital cinemas support an array of frame rates. Blu Ray supports 23.976 and 24p. Most films on Blu Ray are produced at 23.976p. BluRay 3D only supports 23.976. 23.976 is easy to manage for satellite/TV/etc. To be safe stick with the 23.976 (23.98 rounded) moon T7.

I don't know if I am doing something wrong, but I wanted to test the 24p version. When I use Clipwrap to transfer from 24fps .MTS to .Mov, I get a framerate of 23,976fps with sound. When I use 5DTORGB to convert, I can have 24fps WITHOUT sound but at 23,976fps, I get the sound. The original .mts file is at 24fps... I use MPEG Streamclip to check the framerate. Here are some screenshots of the test. If someone can help? Sorry if my english is not good...

@tymeorama Please download ptools 3.66d. The two variants of Cluster X moon show on MediaInfo as follows (Ok I used DREWnet on the left to demonstrate standard settings but its the same for moon on standard - see rightmost picture);-

The mts file is seen as 24fps, but I cannot get 24fps with sound with 5DTORGB or Clipwrap. I will try with FCPX

Edit: In FCPX, the original .mts file is seen as 23.98fps, not 24fps... Still searching...

@driftwood Thanks a ton! You da man!

Where can i download de latest version of Ptools 3.66d

@driftwood. What is the difference between ptools 365d and ptools 366d?

@Driftwood, I thought Ptool 3.66d didn't do any changes for GH2

Shattered! Right thats it. All the Clusters updated with the new theory - just Spizz to go which is nearly there - @bkmwcd is just finishing it off.

@burnetrhoades

and it's like you said earlier, 23.97 is STILL around for a REASON

This 24p discussion going on is completely mistaken. As long as you select the correct frame rate for your project in your nle/daw (i.e. same frame rate per second that you shot your footage) 1 second of audio - whether recorded at 24/96, 18/48, 16/44, 8/22, etc. - will perfectly match 1 second of video. For those who doubt this, do a search on your favorite recorder and see if the European model records at a different rate than the American model. It doesn't. 96Khz per second is 96Khz per second no matter what country you live in. So forget about this 24p/audio-sync non-issue.

@Jim_Simon no its not what i meant to say. see if video was recorded in 23.976 before it will drop 1 frame in every 40 second if it does the audio looses 1 frame time like like 60 / 24 right. so if audio was synced with 23.976. what will happen to video if it is set to 24 frames and the audio is still the same. anyway driftwood said he did set everything and it works great i have no argument on this. @driftwood 23.976 or 24 what frame rate u prefer?? 24 frame is traditional cinema but it do have anything to do with the shutter? 1/50 drops 2 frames every second gives us a blur in medium fast motion. if its 1/48 it wont isnt it. same way 23.976 is not 24 do it gives us sharper well behaved shutter friendly capture??

what is the best profile setting for moon T7 -2-2-2-2 smooth or -2-2-2-2 standard??

Hi guys,

having problems with Cluster v7 apocalypse now 6gop sharp II version (for me: the best compromise). I cannot go on, after 4,18 gb of recording (more or less 11 minutes). How can i resolve the problem? Have i to change settins, or patch? Wich drifwood to don't have this limit? It's important to record some events i have to take.

THANK YOU SO MUCH GUYS

@Renovatio Try Nebula T7 or DREWnet T9 on page one of this thread to download. Its possible your card is not decent enough but Id be interested to know how you get on. report back here. Its hit and miss with those 45Mbps cards. If the above recommends dont work for your card try REDshift low bitrate setting found on the previous Cluster X Series 2 thread (page one for d/l link)

Lets end this 24p/23.976 dispute as we've gone rather off topic. If you want to try out moon T7 with 24p use 'setD', if you want standard 23.976 use setE. The choice is yours. Most people should stick with version setE.

I want feedback regarding moon T7, DREWnet T9 and Nebula T7 and your test videos. I have this sneaking suspicion that Nebula's 720p60 could be slightly better than the others as Im beginning to realise a new theory that will be revealed soon.

Thanks for the report @johnnymossville

@dado023 REDshift 1b at 16Q is totally stabilised.

@spacewig.

Thank you. A voice of reason.

Hi

@driftwood

sorry,I have some questions

@dado023 REDshift 1b at 16Q is totally stabilised.

which means that the small GOPs are alright ?

do you will improve redshift to ?

can i increase the bitrate in Redshift 1b ?? for example in 24H ~ 60000000 and 24L 28000000 ??

( i will do that because I would like to have in 24H best quality for ~30 min on a 16GB Card and in 24L in need spanning with my Patriot Card )

@driftwood

Is the Moon setting the best bet to use as an upgrade from someone that likes the look of Orion v4b, or is Orion vb4 more stable?

I see a lot of people are using Moon T5, how will T6, T7 or any of the other variations differ? Also, is it planned to have one "final' release of Moon that combines everything from all of the trials?

Is Moon suitable as an all-around hack because I really only like keeping one hack loaded. If not, then which do you recommend taking what I mentioned into consideration?

I'm running a 64/96 sandisk card.

Thanks

@anthonyw moon T5 is heavily tested as the current leader - however moon T7 supersedes this and until we see more reports back from people regarding T7 you may want to try out T5 first. As far as my own measured opinion, T7 wins hands down. All the Cluster X settings are finitely tuned and updated as we go along. As an all round hack, T5 and T7 work on all modes. T6 was very experimental and has been superseded by the improved and much more stable T7. If you decide to go along the T7 route - probably use setE from the zipped pack just to be safe for all round use.

@danielortegajan Its not too bad that. The second batch of shots probably in too tight to get adequate focus.

@Driftwood I am having a ball with Moon 7 sete... 24p works brilliantly however the camera keeps freezing when filming HBR25p... I am not using a Sandisk card but I don't think it is the card anyway. The same card handles a higher bit rate with 24p with no problem at all... Am I missing something here? Any ideas? Thanks

@Driftwood Camera completely freezes and I need to get the battery out to reset. Looks like there is no pattern to the freeze. Sometimes records 50sec, sometimes 2min+ before freezing... No playable clips on the card - neither in camera nor on computer. And the file size shows "0". Using and integral ultima pro 95mbs card. As I said it handles 24p without any problems. Is the corrupt file any good for you? Do you still want to see it? Thanks for your help

EDIT: Formatted the card and tried again... Looks like it is working now... Do you think the culprit might be the files recorded with Moon 7 setd that I left on the card?

@WarLightUK Was that last test video shot with a 1/50th shutter?

I'll do more tests tomorrow and report back... Thanks Nick.

@WarLightUK Just for shits and giggles, can you shoot a few scenes at 1/40th? I was going to go out to the pier tonight and shoot some tests but I've been allocated to ripping down a wall in my kitchen by the wife. The boss takes priority! :)

I shot some stuff on the first version and the motion looked ok to me and I shoot on 1/40.

Try it. You decide. A lot of people like the grain in Sedna, Apocalypse Now settings, Boom and Intravenus I & II. See what you think to moon.

Good report. Thankyou @Azo. Nebula done then. :-)

I tested the moon T7 sete, using a Sandisk 64gb/95mbps. - Cinema 24p, 1920x1080, Auto Quantizer changed to "4 - All to details". Shutter 1/40 and 1/50, ISO800. Recorded long clips of 20 and 10 minutes, all fine. - 720/60p, Shutter 1/125 for slow motion. Recorded 20 and 30 minutes, all fine.

I don't have anything interesting to shoot right now, so I will try it in a real job on this Friday, as it's a reliable patch.

@puru Liang was that 720p ? Nice to see a Brighton test :-)

@FernandoAndre Did you uncheck Initial Quantizer / Quantizer for 1080 modes / Quantizer for 720 modes before switching on Auto Quantizer?

@Azo Thanks for proving DREWnet is rock solid too. Yeah there were some 720 B frame amends during the ptool changes that sorted out a few issues in the firmware / switching on / first recording etc. Always good to use the latest version of ptools.

@driftwood No, I didn't see these options on "patches for testers". So, I need uncheck these 3 options if I want the Auto Quantizer active?

Edit: Got a question: Ptool says on Auto Quantizer: "lower values mean lower compression, High values lead to high compression". It means that 4 - All to details has a higher compression than 0 - All to motion? If I want better quality (and bigger bitrate by consequence), my choice should be 0 - All to motion?

@FernandoAndre I don't use AQ at all personally. Everything is measured from the matrix to the manual quantisers.

FYI on Auto Quantizer. =4 is lowest QP as it moves towards =0 it adjusts bitrate to motion estimation. = 2 is a balance.

Chris Brandin who created the routine explains:- "The Auto Quantizer allocates the additional bandwidth to different things. If you go towards "detail" more of the extra bandwidth is allocated to using less quantization of macroblocks - which means better shadow detail and smoother detail all around. If you go towards "motion" extra bandwidth is not allocated to accommodate lower quantization of macroblocks, rather it is allocated to encoding changes in the image more robustly - which means reduced stuttering, etc... They both improve quality, just in different ways. "

@driftwood another thought on my motion problem may have come from not using the latest version of ptools, as you mentioned above.

just ran across this, This didn't appear while shooting, but playback on computer revealed this...once again this is from a setting with old version of ptools

1/50 extel

vlc is giving a strobe effect, YouTube and Win media player do not, when I get a free minute I will upload the original clip and let you try in VLC

Moon T7 test, hope you like.

@driftwood Just tried DREWnet T9 on GH2 and hardly saw any artefact in debloking. Amazing work!! I also tested it on GX1 and everything works perfectly. Do you have any fine-tuning suggestion using DREWnet T9 on GX1 (or G3)? Does GX1 use Intra 8x8? Could we replace the 1080i settings by 24p ones for GX1?

Anyway, you are brilliant!

@rsquires I looked into DREWnet T9 and found that 1080i(or HBR) uses the same scaling matirces as 720p does. In principle both modes should provide improvement equally.

Cheers!:-)

@GravitateMediaGroup Settings: Moon T7 sete, ISO160, 1/125, -2-2-2-2 Smooth, 24H & 720p60

@cbrandin Yes. And the AQ routine is still very good - don't get me wrong. But the ball is still out on the exact role of Quantizer for 720 modes and what it is doing. Here, in these settings note, it is set to 30. Initial; is set to 30. 1080 quantizer is set to =3. Whether 1080 quantizer is controlling 720 modes (which it looks like it is under these settings) is a question you could look into. But it only works with B frames switched on. With 720 on i/p only (encoder setting 1 = 2) the theory goes to mush. So maybe Quantizer for 720 modes is actually something to do with B frames. Incidentally, the matrices are based on Canon 5DIII's unused hidden matrices from its firmware.

@maya 8bit doesn't even grade like 10bit, so how does 8bit grade almost like RAW? I know what you are trying to say and it's more or less possibly even sarcasm, but we do need to keep things realistic to some degree.
Has driftwood made the gh2 quite possibly the best 8bit camera (the ML canon stuff doesn't count)...I would say so, or its a damn close call. c300 and c100 also should not count in this contest lol Canon knows for a fact those cameras should have been 10 bit, or they just assumed everyone would use an external recorder/monitor anyways

uh oh lol

My sleep is never quite so splendid as when it is preceded by the stellar footage of someone's lusciously detailed backyard shot hand-held and in semi-focus on Driftwood's quasi-RAW settings... zzzzzZZZZZ

@driftwood what about Moon T7 does it performs over 5D mark III ?? (i dont have a Mark III to compare footage thats why i am asking this)

@Maya

what about Moon T7 does it performs over 5D mark III ?? (i dont have a Mark III to compare footage thats why i am asking this)<

I appreciate and empathize with you on your enthusiasm about the Moon T-7 patch, but I think you are going little overboard. The 5D Mark III with ML is a full frame camera that is basically shooting raw! There is plenty of footage on Vimeo that will illustrate just how good it is. I apologize if I am coming off the wrong way but I really don't think that it is fair comparison.

No. No. No. We're talking about the h264 codec in the 5DMKIII. Guys rest assured the GH2 encoder is much better than the Canon 5DMKIII (and other Canons) and with the Cluster X settings even better. Magic Lantern RAW is an entirely different thing. I am currently looking into ways of improving the 5DMKIII h264 - just needs different approach.

I disagree, ML RAW when handled correctly (workflow thru ACR/After Effects and straight out export ) is very good. Its the DNG import implementation in Davinci Resolve that is not 100% compatible with Canon ML RAW reading incorrectly. There are numerous RAW2DNG / RAWmagic / other apps appearing which is improving the debayer. Indeed, the ML fellas are busy writing their own MLR wrapper.

@driftwood and the others: I shot with moon t7 set e last evening. I was wondering when the screen dramatically changed his color after pushing the rec botton. I know thats quite normal in a similar way but the screen preview looked so munch better..after pushing the rec button everything was greenish and not so flat in balanced in the colors as it was on none record mode. I used smooth all at -2. any ideas?

@Azo 5D raw is not a cool one, in fact many footages from Vimeo looks awkward when it comes to color reproduction , detail in post 5D raw is not comparable to RED Scarlet even in 2K modes. GH2 Moon T7 is super cool in post I am using SetD. But @driftwood Borg SetD and setE is showing 23.976 in 5dtorgb and clipwrap. What shld I do???

@Maya Its a timing trick to get it to 24 in ptools. I haven't had time to fully check if it is true or not - most readers show 24 frames, whereas the popular transcoders like you have found Clipwrap and 5dtorgb show 23.976. I will investigate further early next week.

@driftwood yes see screenshots here,..it shows 23.976 everywhere,..if i convert it to 24 frames its loosing its audio track and getting converted without audio. yes let me know if there is a change? @tymeorama i feel i am facing same problem. lets wait for a solution.

@dado023 have tried DrewnetT9 on '45' SD cards with some success. Record and playback work in camera but no spanning. Perfect on '95' cards.
Latest flowmotion & redshift are OK on '45' cards, but again no spanning. Awaiting an improved Redshift with keen interest.
Only tested 720P & 1080i PAL

Don't forget that these hacks are pushing the on board camera processing to the limits and there are production tolerances to consider. As end users there is trial & error and fair amount of luck. Despite the amount of work put in I doubt Driftwood has any control over these tolerances.
Some GH2 cameras are simply better than others hence our experiences differ.
Best of luck.

@dado023 Simply stops recording. Files larger than the 4GB are not possible due to the FAT32 file system used. If spanning were possible as with '95' cards then you could end with a series of contiguous 4GB files. These are combined in the NLE to one large file or viewed as one file using in camera playback.

Sanity 5.1 spanned correctly on '45' cards as per the basic Panasonic update

@callan, on my SDXC card my GH2 camera uses exFAT, there is no file limit on exFAT afaik, but not sure?, i guess this is more of GH2 itself limitation to 4GB...or not?

I've tried DREWnet T9 on a GF3 with SanDisk Extreme 30MB/s, and it seems to be rock solid: passes the "death chart" test, and gives around 35-40 Mbit/s on real-world scenes (HBR 1080i). However, it looks too soft even with 20/1.7. I've got GF3 only recently, so I'm not sure if it's due to the patch settings, or it's the best GF3 can do.

By the way, I've been running Slipstream #3 GOP-1 on a G3 for quite some time, it's pretty stable and the quality is amazing (40-70 Mbit/s).

@dado023 my '95' x 64GB card is formatted exFAT in camera and spans in 4GB blocks. Maybe the file limit is set within the GH2. Out of interest did you try spanning with GH2 at factory settings? Mine was OK.

If you really must have the higher performance & spanning it seems the only safe way is to use the '95' card. If you do not require spanning and have other cards the Drewnet 9 would be my choice.

Canon 5DMKIII ML RAW v moon T7

@callan

yes of course, spanning works with GH factory setting, that not an issue. I have tried Drewnet 8 a month ago, but it usually failed after few minutes, card writing speed issue, altought on my notebook card usually writes 18MB/s, which is much more than normal class10, but i guess some hacks need even more speed.

@kidgray

reddish tones coming out of the camera are irrelevant if it's RAW, one pinch of color correction and it's like magic

@driftwood did the 7-14 have any ND filters?

@driftwood Should I patch my camera back to Moon T7 SetE? The 24 frames doesn't work at all. even the second time with 3.66D ptools showed 23.976 only. Cliwrap, 5D to RGB, VLC, and QuickTime everything shows the same before and after conversion. Please let me know if I have to do anything.

@driftwood SetE is fine. i just loaded it and did a quick test. But SetE and SetD does the same. no 24frames in SetD. anyway, Thank You for such a Great Hack. its very filmy, flat and creamy.

@Driftwood I think it'd be great to see more comparisons of 5D Mark III ML and CLusterX from you!

Panny 14-42, Yashica ML 135. ND8. Sandisk 95MB 32GB. Minor colorcorrection.

@Sharpixels Enough of this. Do the proper tests. Fag break.

@driftwood

...I am currently looking into ways of improving the 5DMKIII h264 - just needs different approach.

Are you a part of Tragic Lantern or is this a separate effort? A friend sent me a story about the 1% guys and their first All-Intra version of the encoder for the 5D. I guess we'll see if the Digic cameras really didn't have enough horsepower to do a good job or if it was Canon's engineers.

edit: Roger That @driftwood

Night shots

Whoosh! And he disappeared. :-)

@Bozzie Excellent work Bulent. Some really good shots and direction. 'Spizz T5' about to become T6 in the next few days. Salut :-)

Coming Soon: Spizz T6 - Here's a 24p skin tone test / plus curve, levels & colour overgrade.

@kidgray Difficult and boy we've tried (Canis Night). GH2 dynamic range isn't exactly RED! But work with it, get portable lighting, don't go above ISO1600 and adjust where you can. Loads of topics on this matter.

@dado023

One of Shian Storms videos explains it:

Moon T7 on a G3 with SanDisk Extreme 30MB/s gives over 90MBit/s on detailed scenes, and seems pretty stable in practice. Does not pass the death chart though, and no spanning. Anyway, I can't imagine anyone using G3 for anything production-related, so in general the setting is usable on a G3, and the IQ is great.

@driftwood Thanks Nick. Looking forward to getting my hands on T6 :)

@kidgray He mentioned as much in the older thread. I was really surprised how much I liked it over Flow Motion when I needed a 3 gop patch to shoot on a slower SD card. Like his other patches, I found the noise to have an almost film grain like quality, quite pleasing in fact, making it an easy call to not feel the need to add a grain layer to the footage during my finishing.

Shot using Drewnet T9

@johnnymossville nice looking footage.

@EYESOUL Theyre both based on similarities and edited for each GOP :-)

@JBP1138 (Lucas fan?)

The first thing I noticed is that the dialog is only on the left channel. That's annoying enough to make me stop watching. (The bit I saw looked good, though.)

Looking forward to trying Spizz. I have a wedding with three GH2's on wedding so I'll be sure to mark with colored tape which has Spizz on it. Should be fun

PREVIEW OF SPIZZ T6 HERE

Download the latest version of Spizz T6 here and let me know your thoughts regarding 24p (other modes are being fine tuned). Its pretty special. The final version of Spizz T6 will be released shortly.

@driftwood Moon T7 SetE works great but i still have my mind running on 24p native 24 frames hack,...any further development on Moon T7 SetD 24 Frames??

@driftwood one of the video HUD app shows Moon T7 SetD as

General Count : 284 Count of stream of this kind : 1 Kind of stream : General Stream identifier : 0 ID : 0 (0x0) Count of video streams : 1 Count of audio streams : 1 Count of text streams : 1 Video_Format_List : AVC Video_Format_WithHint_List : AVC Codecs Video : AVC Audio_Format_List : AC-3 Audio_Format_WithHint_List : AC-3 Audio codecs : AC3 Text_Format_List : PGS Text_Format_WithHint_List : PGS Text codecs : PGS Complete name : /Users/babujimohideen/Desktop/South Tour/00001.MTS Folder name : /Users/babujimohideen/Desktop/South Tour File name : 00001 File extension : MTS Format : BDAV Format/Info : Blu-ray Video Format/Extensions usually used : m2ts Commercial name : BDAV Codec : BDAV Codec/Info : Blu-ray Video Codec/Extensions usually used : m2ts File size : 117.1 MiB Duration : 00:00:06.669 Overall bit rate mode : Variable Overall bit rate : 146 Mbps Maximum Overall bit rate : 157 Mbps Stream size : 5.39 MiB (5%) Proportion of this stream : 0.04605 File last modification date : UTC 2013-07-27 05:11:50 File last modification date (local) : 2013-07-27 10:41:50

Video Count : 264 Count of stream of this kind : 1 Kind of stream : Video Stream identifier : 0 StreamOrder : 0-0 ID : 4113 (0x1011) Menu ID : 1 (0x1) Format : AVC Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec Format/Url : http://developers.videolan.org/x264.html Commercial name : AVC Format profile : High@L4.0 Format settings : 2 Ref Frames Format settings, CABAC : No Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames Internet media type : video/H264 Codec ID : 27 Codec : AVC Codec/Family : AVC Codec/Info : Advanced Video Codec Codec/Url : http://developers.videolan.org/x264.html Codec profile : High@L4.0 Codec settings : 2 Ref Frames Codec settings, CABAC : No Codec_Settings_RefFrames : 2 Duration : 00:00:06.673 Bit rate mode : Variable Bit rate : 140 Mbps Maximum bit rate : 153 Mbps Width : 1 920 pixels Height : 1 080 pixels Pixel aspect ratio : 1.000 Display aspect ratio : 16:9 Frame rate : 24.000 fps Frame count : 160 Resolution : 8 bits Colorimetry : 4:2:0 Color space : YUV Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0 Bit depth : 8 bits Scan type : Progressive Interlacement : Progressive Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.820 Delay : 00:00:00.735 Delay, origin : Container Stream size : 112 MiB (95%) Proportion of this stream : 0.95264 Buffer size : 120753152 / 120753152 format_identifier : HDMV

Audio Count : 241 Count of stream of this kind : 1 Kind of stream : Audio Stream identifier : 0 StreamOrder : 0-1 ID : 4352 (0x1100) Menu ID : 1 (0x1) Format : AC-3 Format/Info : Audio Coding 3 Commercial name : AC-3 Mode extension : CM (complete main) Format settings, Endianness : Big Codec ID : 129 Codec : AC3 Duration : 00:00:06.688 Bit rate mode : Constant Bit rate : 192 Kbps Channel(s) : 2 channels Channel positions : 2/0/0 Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz Samples count : 321024 Frame count : 209 Resolution : 16 bits Bit depth : 16 bits Compression mode : Lossy Delay : 00:00:00.735 Delay, origin : Container Delay relative to video : 0 Video0 delay : 0 Stream size : 157 KiB (0%) Proportion of this stream : 0.00131 dsurmod : 0 dialnorm : -31 dialnorm/String : -31 dB compr : -11.02 compr/String : -11.02 dB bsid : 4 dialnorm_Average : -31 dialnorm_Average/String : -31 dB dialnorm_Minimum : -31 dialnorm_Minimum/String : -31 dB dialnorm_Maximum : -31 dialnorm_Maximum/String : -31 dB dialnorm_Count : 30 compr_Average : -11.02 compr_Average/String : -11.02 dB compr_Minimum : -11.02 compr_Minimum/String : -11.02 dB compr_Maximum : -11.02 compr_Maximum/String : -11.02 dB compr_Count : 30 format_identifier : AC-3

Text Count : 195 Count of stream of this kind : 1 Kind of stream : Text Stream identifier : 0 StreamOrder : 0-2 ID : 4608 (0x1200) Menu ID : 1 (0x1) Format : PGS Commercial name : PGS Codec ID : 144 Codec : PGS Duration : 00:00:06.567 Delay : 00:00:00.735 Delay, origin : Container Delay relative to video : 0

Here is a test of the Driftwood SPIZZ T6 patch. Hope it is useful...

In my experience, Moon Trial 7 is by far the best looking footage I've ever seen from my camera. Incredibly film-like, especially when using set D, which records at a true 24 fps, not the faux 23.976 that 'video' uses.

Driftwood MOON T7 quick macro test

@GravitateMediaGroup

thx

@Jim_Simon noob.

@dado23 Thanks. I just add a Cinemascope croplines layer on top of the video, and exported as HD anamorphic, if thats what I think you are asking haha.

Download the latest version of Spizz T6 here and let me know your thoughts regarding 24p (other modes are being fine tuned). Its pretty special. The final version of Spizz T6 will be released shortly.>>

The test shots are pretty random and handheld (untouched, but some stabilization in post). Mostly shot in 1080p24 - a few scenes in 720p60 (slow motion). At first glance I´m pretty satisfied but please build your own opinion. If someone knows a better patch with similar datarates please let me know...

Picture Style: Standard Settings: -1, -1, +-0, -1 Kit Lens 14-140 Music: Cinema Orchestra

@sleepy32 Thank you.

I agree with the Moon T7 comments. My initial tests look absolutely fantastic. I'll be doing some more "Kitchen Sink" testing to evaluate noise and block artefacts when I get some free time.

@briwill

"does the subject matter/complexity of the shot change the bitrate?" AND "Is this normal."

Yes and yes.

@lmackreath Only from my personal experience - After trying nearly all of the Cluster X2 series patches when driftwood first released them, nothing was perfectly "stable" until I bit the bullet and bought the SanDisk 64GB 95MB/s Extreme Pro Card. Since then... never had a problem. Hate to admit it because I still feel the cost of that little plastic card is absolutely ridiculous, BUT this is the one time where "You get what you pay for" rings true.

That said I know a lot of folks have used the card you mentioned with some of the hacks. Which ones.. don't know.

All the new Cluster X settings appear to be working with a myriad of Extreme cards. :-)

I say that these settings are absolutely beautiful quality. Now try and prove me wrong.

Spanning is one area that seems hit and miss. It would be great if Moon T7 had the 'L' mode @ 24fps which was a reliable long take 'spanner', but i can't really complain. For most purposes these settings are gorgeous.

Job shooted mostly with Moon T7.

@Bozzie Soldier was really well done. Congrats.

@lmackreath

I've been using the SanDisk Extreme (not Pro) 128GB 45MB/s card with Moon 7 no problems. It even spans just fine.

Has anyone tried the new sandisk extreme 80MB cards

Is the difference in quality of 720 between Drewnet T9 and Moon T7 worth choosing Drewnet over Moon? Any opinions?

@brant_moore,I also think so - ( Is the difference in quality of 720 between Drewnet T9 and Moon T7 worth choosing Drewnet over Moon? Any opinions? )

@Aashay Thank you for the reply.

I ask because I use 24H for work, and 720SH for personal action sports videos that need to be 60p. So having the best of both worlds at the same time is what I am looking for. I do not want to re-flash the camera each time I switch between personal shooting and work shooting.

I guess what I really need is to learn what to look for when comparing two different settings.

@brant_moore Personally, I would advice you not to get caught up in these patches way more than what is needed. If you can't really tell the difference between settings then choose the one that's reliable and looks good to you overall with your lenses. These patches have been liked by people like Sir Coppola himself (who are wayyyyyyy better judge of the quality of the patches/picture than you and me, imho) Driftwood patches ARE quality! No matter what you pick. Now, for 60p some people say shooting intra (Moon) will be more useful. If you have tons of space to spare, go for it. Others (Like Drewnet who is incredible) says long gop patches (Drewnet) can render extremely amazing results as well. Do a little slow-mo test in a well lit environment and compare. We can talk here all day long about different patches but until you do the drill and you feel which patch is right for you, don't listen to anyone else.

@smsjr @driftwood I'm also getting the first frame garbled with Moon T7c setting. Sandisk Extreme 30MB/s 16gig.

@smsjr @x_worpig_x I haven't counted on the first frames of a recording for a long time. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and that's true of a lot of settings.

@brant_moore The differences are often subtle and stability is one of the biggest concerns.

But in regards to the differences, here are things you can use to differentiate. Remember, the only way to reliably test is to do one setting right after the other - pay attention to changing lighting conditions (sunsets, sunrises and moving clouds are not your friends) or scene content.

Test 1: Static Detail Stress Test

• Shoot an indoor deep DOF fine-pattern on a tripod (the canvas pattern in a colorful painting sharply focused is a good example) at an ISO setting that approximates what a real-world "high ISO" would be for you. Make sure to get a proper exposure.
• Then examine it zoomed in to get a sense for it. I suggest comparing the top left and bottom right corners.
• As @Driftwood has mentioned before, if a setting is aggressive in using bitrate quickly (like IntraVenus 1) then the bottom right corner will be less detailed than the top left.
• You want to keep an eye out for macro-blocking and the "smooth vs preserve detail" slant of the setting in the noise pattern to pick what suits your taste.

Test 2: Handheld Detail Test

• Shoot a deep DOF handheld shot with a narrow angle shutter (as narrow as you can get away with while maintaining exposure). Subject is your choice but things with fine detail tend to be more demanding.
• Try exaggerating camera motion (both slow and quick pans and shakes) and shooting subjects in motion. Higher GOP settings may sometimes suffer during scenes that combine high-detail with high-motion by running out of bitrate between I-frames at the end of a GOP sequence.
• You are looking for detail, sharpness and macro-blocking in this test - zoom in again.

Test 3 : Personal Taste Test

• Shoot using settings similar to what you would use on-site. Normally this means wider open and wider angle shutter than Test 2 and a more interesting subject than Test 1.
• Analyze the footage using the same techniques used above, in brief.
• Pay closer attention to any stylistic concerns you might have (like motion rendering, edge emphasis, etc.) first zoomed in and then at normal magnification.

When testing SH mode, keep in mind that no popular setting uses GOP1. So if you are looking at stills, don't just look at one frame - go through the whole length of the GOP sequence to look for variation between I, P and B frames.

As well as the first few frames being muddy, there is also for about half a second no audio. This is a limitation I found on both the GH1 and GH2. It's incredibly annoying if you just throw everything onto a timeline to output because you get a 1/2sec of silence between each clip. When I queried Panasonic about this they said it was to not record any on camera noise but that's just stupid. Audio should start when pic starts

@Brant-moore they do not make it too hard - if they want to shoot 720/60p, then DREWnet T9 - the best 720P worldwide. . . if they want to shoot 24p, then Moon T7. . . and all is well. DREWnet T9 720/60p is better than anything offered by other manufacturers staffers, even better than 1080p from Sony, Canon, etc.

I'm filming at the moment with everything DREWnet T9 720/60p

@Butt Totally right the DREWnet T9 is pretty gorgeous.

@dado023

On my very first test of Moon Trial 7, I had about 42 GB of various clips on the card when I tested spanning. It did glitch once with a write error, but then spanned 10 times without a hitch, ending up with over 80GB on the card.

Don't forget also chaps, a lot of the research from the last 2 years done on the GH2 in the encoder will mean a speedy transition to the GH3's AVCHD modes in the future hack. Which means a lot of the Cluster stuff should work on the GH3 - imagine that with the improved sensor.

UPDATE NEWS: Spizz T6 is still being fine tuned for HBR/FSH and 720p modes by myself, @towi and @bkmcwd - apologies for the delay

@driftwood Good heavens Nick!

Moon T5 has been my stock patch since its creation. But with all the hubbub about T7 I had to give it a spin. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Feels and looks like Moon T5 but with a cinema lens subtle softness. Really nice.

So far with Moon T7 • 24p High Spans • SH 720 60p Spans

Please Mr. Driftwood, what is the best patch to make my GH2 works like a a cine câmera? (película 35mm: Aaton, Panavision, Arri, etc) You have a lot of great patches but which you recomender for my purposes? Thank you so much! Paulo.

@Manu4Vendetta The difference between 8-bit compressed and RAW really depends on what you are shooting. :)

Last year I did a shoot - all outdoors, 100% natural light, no reflectors, etc. - for a music video. It was mostly shot with a RED Scarlet and a GH2 using an older @Driftwood hack. Now that was REDRAW wavelet, and of course higher resolution and a different camera but here is what I can tell you without equivocation.

The GH2 looked great when (and only when) I played to the camera's strengths. I mean, I really loved the way it looked.

But there were several shots that I could ONLY shoot on a camera with a wide dynamic range and a higher bit-depth. Maybe there were intermediate solutions that would have done a good job and it didn't have to go all the way RAW... but there are things you can do with more advanced codec solutions that are VERY difficult to do shooting with any form of 8-bit AVCHD or H.264, because they essentially require controlling the environmental lighting (or carefully planning or limiting your movement to account for it).

On the shoot I was on, that was not practical. The only cameras I can think of that could have pulled it off all are capable of shooting some version of RAW (even if only "pseudo-RAW" with baked in aspects). So we used one that did and filled in the shots that the GH2 could not do.

EDIT: Just to clarify, there were several shots that included lots of detail in both the shadows and bright sky, especially the colors in both - and later the other colors of the sunset and the sun itself. That was part of what made it so tricky.

@thepalalias Hey Per, I think I remember you posting a link to that before. Can you repost the link if I remember correctly?

I tried to get stable 30p on long shots and no luck yet.

DREWnet T9 variable speed 80% - camera hangs after 1 hour of recording (56 GB). Tripod, iA and iDynamic off, continuous focus off, Shutter speed priority, auto ISO, Panny lens

Spizz5 HBR30 Random recording stops. 10-40 min

Extreme Pro 95/64

@paulo It's not just a matter of which patch use to get a "filmic look". In fact, you CAN get this kind of look with GH2 using any patch, even with the original firmware. The main key is light.

Yes, the hack plays a very important role on this process, avoiding macroblock artifacts, ugly noise and stuff that I don't have technical knowledge to explain, but it's only a part of the job. And no, you can't get a cinematic feeling on your footage just because you installed a patch. If you search for videos recorded with any hack, you will see that some looks amazing and some looks just like a cheap camcorder. The same hack, and the same camera. Why?

There are at least 5 important things to get cinematic footages. And in my opinion, and specially when talking about GH2, the most important topic is the light. Not the amount of light, it's not how much do you light the scene, but how you do it. If you get the light to properly work for you, so you will be able to choose a patch and understand in practice the difference between them.

That said, I recommend you the last Moon T7; Sedna AQ1 (a little instable but very beautiful); and Flowmotion 2.02. Any of these will provide a quality image for your purpose.

Gh2 goes Big. T7 middle earth.

@pop24 That looks amazing man. Great job. What lens are you using for the wide angle fisheye?

@flaschus: Every player and video editor here proves 24.000fps, even MediaInfo.

Driftwood's Moon T7 & Lumix 20mm - 1080_25p

Smooth -2,-1,0,-1

@flaschus

According to Nick, he did set it up to shoot at 24 fps for set D.

@Jim_Simon That's true, but according to a lot of us using set D, it's not coming out as 24p, no matter what anyone says it should be coming out as.

Fernando André, and we also have to remember about the lenses right? So, thank you very much for your help. I guess your opinion about the light is absolutely correct. I'll keep it in my mind. Thanks for your patch list too.

@Jim_Simon

Have you had any issues in regard to recording with the Sandisk Extreme 128GB card? Have you recorded an hour or more of footage on this card? I am very curious because I was under the impression that the GH2's would not work with the 128GB cards or for that matter Driftwoods high bitrate patches.

@Azo I haven't used the card but last year @Craig_R reported that the Sandisk Extreme 45 MB/s 128GB card spanned for 2 hours with Cluster v6.

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/72814#Comment_72814

@thepalalias Yep your right Its the main SD Card I use with my GH2 the only problem I have found with them is the outer case cracks and shatters in the same place. I have wrecked 2 128Gb Cards in the same way the plastic is sooooo thin its like paper. Guess they make the plastic thinner to fit all the memory in. I will post some photos tomorrow. I wanted to send them back but my boss said he could not be bothered with the paper work. Great Sd Cards Shame about the paper thin caseing. I do also use the 16Gb and 32Gb Cards from Time to Time and they seem to be stronger. The Sandisk 128Gb Cards are the only Cards I have ever Damaged. My boss said I was being to rough but when I showed him the thin plastic he agreed it was not me being to rough with the cards We will not be buying any more of them and will be getting the 64Gb 95Mbs instead from now on.

@driftwood. Nick I did some comparison shots between T4 with QP=16 and T7 under the same conditions and the same scenes. The time difference was the time it took to load the next hack. I checked the clips in StreamParser. Couple of observations that I don't know how to exactly interpret them. It takes Streamparser 5-10 times longer to parse the T4 clip than it takes the T7 for similar clip. On the other hand, the frame sizes (mostly I-frames) for T4 are approximately 150K larger than T7 for the1080 modes and less than 50K for 720P SH mode. 24P I-frames are pretty much the same.

Do these settings have more contrast. I find mysel not having to do any luma work on my grading... AKA the files are not that flat even with settings -2 -2 -2 -2

DREWnet T9 test settings -2 -2 -2 -2 . leica 1.4〜2.2 ISO160, Shutter 1/120 It's already graded.

vimeo.com/72203653

Anyone had issues with in camera playback shooting SH 720 60p mode with Moon T7 set "e" loaded? Scouting a shoot today and couldn't do a quick review footage taken with the client. Moon T5 worked fine on SH 720 60p as I remember. (Yes i should have tested 720 60p before the meeting. Damn me! Grrrrrrr) Thanks much.

Hardly used at event Moon T7 @24L, very stable, with spanning. Bitrate about 80Mb/s

using sandisk 32/45mbs in FSH and SH modes cam locks itself and have to pull the batterry out several times. HBR mode seems to work ok. but ı have playback issues occationaly.Somehow the highest 24p setting records and plays back flawlessly; there must be an explanation for that which ı do not know; besides the card being too slow. today waiting for a new card toshiba exceria type2 60mbs write, 90 mbs read ( can't afford sandisk 64/95 mbs card at the moment) hopefuly cam would work better with the toshiba one. just reporting cj.

User report... :) --> Using Moon T7 (24H) on an interview I had the camera stopped recording sometimes. Card used was Sandisk Extreme Pro 32GB 95mbps. No crash, just a normal 'stop recording'. I pressed rec button immediatey after and it started recording again. I don't remember if I tried to watch the files in camera cause we were in a rush. But they are still on the card and really don't play back (today): 'no valid picture to play'. I shoot a quick test now and the 'new' files play nicely. Looking to the card via computer, the 'old' big files from the interview are there, but the camera strangely doesn't see them, only the new (small) ones. Using Moon T5 a week before I got zero issues and files played smoothly on camera. Maybe Moon T5 is still more reliable? I have another interview round today. Gonna keep GH3 as main camera and try to test GH2 with Moon T5 to see if I get zero issues again...

@maddog15 Is this 720p60 only?

@driftwood Correct. 720p60 Only.

24H works flawlessly for me so far. (Playback, spanning, overall stability) Even when I've recorded a 720p60 file and a 24H file on the same card the 24H file will playback in camera where the 720p60 file still gives the error message. Moon T7 set "e"

Hope this helps and thank you.

@nobbystylus. for 80% slow motion recording use 24L setting and it should work.

@Azo

Sorry about the delay in responding. Been shooting all week.

I have not had any issues using the SanDisk Extreme 128GB card using any Driftwood patch, including AN DREWnet, Cluster X DREWnet Trial 8, Moon Trials 5, 6 and 7. They all work flawlessly, they all span just fine with this card.

moon t7 set e. thanks @driftwood. password: speedbooster

@maddog15 Today as a test I recorded in 720p in Moon T7 (set e) on a 32gb SD card at just 30mbps write speed (the slowest card I have right now) and it spanned without issue until I turned it off at 1 hour and 20 minutes. I had to power cycle to achieve in camera playback, but no problems other than that. Maybe you've got a bad card(s)?

@Jim_simon @jumo thanks for your effort. Have you also tested the HBR ,FSH , SH and İA modes as well with your cards?

Tried Drewnet T9 the whole day after a week with Moon T7. No any issues with Moon T7, but Drewnet T9 doesn't allow playback in camera. The only possible way is to switch off and then on, going directly to the playback. I don't think it's a card issue since no any with Moon T7.

@Driftwood Lastest attempt moon T7: with Toshiba 60W/90R card. This time I used ptool 3.65D just to see if it differs anything. So far 24H works like magic, HBR,FSH,SH modes work. When I dial IA FSH and SH stops after 20-30 secs it says the card speed is not enough ( I respect that). Again I have to thank you and bow to you sir amazing image quality. I plan to use the cam like this for couple days and try ptool 3.66d again.

Same here. Crash Premiere CS6 on mac OS X 10.7.5 browsing media with clips made by T7 (24P)

@cjdincer

I shoot everything at 24p only. This camera is just not well suited to sports, which to my mind is the only legitimate reason for NOT using 24p.

However, I did test iA with Moon Trial 5 and had no issues.

@Jumo I'm running 10.8.4 on both my 2.53 i5 macbook pro and 21.5" 2.7Ghz i5 imac. I was thinking it might be more related the combo of highbitrate merged clips, I'm syncing an extra 4 audio tracks with the clips... so that might be adding to the already high bitrate. I originally moved to premiere from final cut so I didn't have to transcode but it looks like we might be back to square one. I know I definately don't want to go back to 5.5 there was issues with merged files and the file management is way better with CC.

did anyone tried to use avidemux and just copy the streams into another container file?

@abolit Yep, I've had luck with Clip Wrap rewrapping the MTS file into a ProRes 442H MOV file. Just hated having to create/duplicate yet another huge file on my hard drive so I've continued with the private folder drag and drop method.

@maddog15 I wonder if its the extra power or extra ram or combo of both, I'm only using 8 gigs. @abolit I'll try some tests with clipwrap too.

@jim_simon

@rsquires is right, and then if you throw twixtor in the mix to footage shot with proper slow mo settings, it looks as good as it needs to.

Can someone tell me why use 24p when shooting for screens? I shot on a C300 at 24p and made my final render to 23.976p when submitting to festivals or 25p if sent to Europe. If played on digital projectors and computer screens, should I have stayed at 24p? By the way, there was once and a while a frame adjustment needed when placing the picture and audio on a 23.976p timeline after editing on a 24p timeline. Somewhat of a nuisance but not too terrible that couldn't be fixed.

@binpunkt even if you use 24L mode with @driftwood patches you get the best IQ and quantization and don't forget that these are trial settings and should be used with caution for paid job or what ever. and also cluster X series have not reach its compilation as we are still testing them. hard work and patience pays at the end of the day.

thanks for replies, and true, even in 24L moonT5 looks really nice and no problem in 80% mode

@rsquires.

For me it's an ergonomic thing. While the camera itself may well work just fine shooting sports, I personally would hate using it for such. A servo zoom with a pan remote is pretty much a "must have" when I shoot sports.

@Jim_Simon I can't see why that should make any difference, I usually only copy the stream folder to the HD when doing data dumps from the camera... how could those extra file folders possibly help?

I must say...I am extremely impressed with the quality of Moon T7. Only problem is twice my recording froze. Had to remove battery to reset camera. Stopped recording at 2:02 minutes and 3:01. Both cases the recorded file was not watchable. Would get an error when trying to open or copy and paste. Is this because of no spanning or because my card is only 45MB/S?

@driftwood In the description for moon T7, it states that "iDynamic mode on 24p best on Low." Does this mean it's better to set it on low compared to off?

Really enjoy the way Moon T7 grades. Beautiful. Thank you Nick.

Hello, soon I will make a short film with the moon t7, I have a sd 32 mb and busy recording is paused, I would like to buy one for longer worried for a while, what sd do you recommend?

Spizz T6 'final'. 720P 1080i PAL '45'x32Gb sandisk 14-140 pana lens. Records & plays back in camera provided clip is short. ie not spanning. If spanning only 2x 4Gb files recorded before recording stops.File OK in NLE but will not play back in camera.

Repeated this test with previous release of T6. Manually halted recording after 25 minutes. File played back in camera and NLE shows 4 spanned files.

Pretty confident latest T6 would be fine on '95'x 64GB disk.

@ driftwood. Many thanks for your excellent work

Depends on the lighting situation.

@callan I've tried Spizz T6 'final' 1080i PAL on a Lumix G3 with 20/1.7 and SanDisk Extreme 45MB/s 32GB, and it seems to be spanning just fine (stopped manually after 20 minutes @ 72Mbit/s, footage split into 3 files). Passes the "death chart" test as well. I haven't done any real-world tests though. The previous Spizz T6 'beta' was rock solid in all conditions, but with a lower (65-ish) max bitrate.

Having a great time using Drewnet T9. Getting some great looking stuff and it's even spanning on my 45mbps card! The only issue I seem to be coming up against is that when it has spanned and I stop the recording, I get an error saying "File limit reached" and I can't record any more, even though the card is nowhere near full. Any ideas?

@jebsly Here are the usual possible "toggles", so you can see if any of them help at all.

Option 1) Record a short clip (just a second or two) right after the long clip before doing anything else.

Option 2) Turn off the camera and eject the camera. Re-insert the card and turn on again.

*Option 3) If option 2 did not work, there is an approach that some people advise against but that I've used several times without negative consequence - DO SO AT YOUR OWN RISK. Repeat step 2, except keep the camera on while removing or inserting the card.

Hopefully at least one of those will do it - I haven't had the issue in a while, so I'm afraid I don't remember the rate of effectiveness.

@thepalalias

Eject the card and then turn off the camera.

That's bad advice. You should never remove or insert the card while the camera is powered up.

Thanks @thepalalias I'll give those a go if it happens again.

@Imaginate The grab looks great! I will have to agree with you on converting to Prores.

@tinbeo a 1.8 gig file just took 16 mins , thats 8.8 mins per gig... 9.5 hours for 64 gb. (macbook pro 2.53 ghz w 8 megs ram ) Maybe need to find a faster machine for this transcoding. I'm just about to buy 5D2RGB batch.

@HelloHicups , looks nice. One thing I've noticed with the GH2 is how well it works with natural light, and T7 is definitely a beast.

@Imaginate Holy crap!! Yeah man, you need a faster machine there. I transcode at about a gig a min. That's really slow :(

@zsound I used Canon FD glass. A Vivitar 28mm f2.5 and a Canon 50mm f1.8

@vicharris good to hear that, I'll probably get better results from the quadcore imacs. What is your computer?

@sleepy32 I think I have a Fotodiox fd to micro four thirds adapter.

@HelloHicups Thanks!!!

@driftwood

Currently looking into a possible switch for moon t7 (over t5, which I like very much) as t7 looks rather enticing though I struggle to find some clear notes on differences between the two. Maybe you can help?

For me, it´s not just a question of high end quality but also the possibility of switching to L, using 25p(HBR) e.t.c. if the circumstances require it.. So it would be nice to know a bit about stability reports and how it performs in lower quality too (mind, I only use 64gb sdxc sandisk cards), compared to t5.

The reason I want to look into this right now is because I´m going to create a few LUT´s to match gh2, bmd and fs700 footage (in resolve, premiere a.s.o) and so I don´t want to have to do it again. If you want I can share the results!

Roger that! Thanks a lot for your input, @driftwood! I´ll keep my eyes peeled about the development of the future t8 and install t7 for now.

@azza_act moon T7 if it were me :-)

How much recording time can you get on a 64GB using moon t7 at 1080p24?

This one (moon T7) is my favorite. I've been testing 25p for a few days now and quality is all good. Done some lowlight, under exposure and camera movement tests and i'm surprised how close it is to 24p. One problem thou: after 7 min. recording stops. Tested using Sandisk Extreme Pro 32 and 64.

Cluster X DREWnet Trial 9 stopped recording after 14 mins. No Spanning. HBR 25P on SanDisk Extreme Pro 95Mb/s card. Will try some new tests. File size was 4.29 GB.

Why not both?

@lolo That is odd. I haven't encountered that with T5, but would you be willing to test the repeatability of that? We'd have to rule out the most likely possibility (which is that the camera was having issues that were not related to the settings but stopped glitching the next time the firmware was flashed) by doing 3 flahses consecutively.

1) Flash Moon T5 and try to recreate the problem. If successful, go to step 2. 2) Flash Stock Firmware and try to recreate the problem. If unsuccessful for an extended period of time, go to step 3. 3) Flash Moon T5 and try to recreate the problem.

If you're up for the testing, it would be helpful to report your findings. Honestly it sounds like there's something wrong with the camera (like you mentioned) that is the real culprit in this case. But there's nothing wrong with being thorough and it's possible that if there's a pre-existing problem with your camera, that the problem is better highlighted by a high-performance setting than a standard one.

Still, it would be the first time in years of using hacked settings that I heard of an issue like this popping up just with hacked settings, so it would be nice to know one way or the other.

@lolo Could be - it's hard to say. I know my Canon 50D wigs out when it gets low on battery in the grip.

@lolo I understand - best of luck with the feature. :)

But for what it's worth, so far there's nothing to indicate that it has anything to do with Moon T5. There are too many other variables involved (the battery having been recharged, the issue only having occurred when the setting was flashed once with no evidence of repeatability) and it's the only reported instance of the issue so far after months of use with the setting by a lot of users.

I think it's good that you mentioned it, because if someone else has it, then we know to start looking at what's going. But for now it's just data in a "for future reference" file rather than anything to inspire caution. :)

Some screengrabs from VLC. Footage straight out of the camera. No Post work done yet. All I can say is, Thank you so much @driftwood for Drewnet T9. It is just amazing. http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/850/ynsf.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/843/zjlt.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/11/pm2i.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/829/uxph.png/

1 GOP Intra 'moon' T7, (trying both versions). Card SanDisk 95MB\s.

Has anyone had any audio issues with T7? My audio cuts in and out a lot, with both internal mic and ext. I'll try an earlier firmware one of the days when I have time, just wondering if anyone else has seen this.

Rent my Camera to a Friend, shoot @ Moon T5 He's no Proffessional, so don't blame the movie, sometimes it's somewhat shaky xD

Drewnet T9 is amazing. Thanks a lot @driftwood for amazing work once again. I'm going to try Spizz next.

Can anyone confirm if moon T7 does or should work with a sandisk extreme 128gb 45mb/s card?

It's worked perfectly in my tests, and even on a coupe of jobs so far.

I've been loving Moon T7 and I use it mostly for narrative/controlled stuff with a Sandisk 64GB 95 MB/S.

Next Sunday a friend's rock band is recording their first album and I will try to get some making of video. Thinking of DrewNet T9 for that kind of job, for stability and recording time. Any of you using it for doc stuff?

Furthermore, and maybe going a bit out of topic, any advice for that kind of album recording/making of shoot? Any tips or comments will be much appreciated ;)

also try 64/45 Extreme

@fran nice job man! :D

I've been using Moon T7 and love love love the quality. I've got a shoot next week that i need maximum reliability as i'm shooting interviews in HBR 25P and will need longer takes so i'm thinking of stepping 'down' to Spizz or Drewnet. I'm going to be using a 64G 95MBPs but i wondered what people thought was the 'safest' of the patches for spanning, reliability etc, or whether i should play it super safe and go for Sanity 5.1.

Cheers

@fran indeed it does look great, what lens(es) did you use?

@fran Very nice!

First time got freeze when shooting HBR with SpizZ T6.

Yes, sweet combo! Wanna try more!

Eh @hallvalla, super cool! Use whatever you want! Love the loop!

I apply FilmConvert to an Adjustment Layer in Premiere Pro CC after editing is completed.

@thepalalias thanks for your works, totally agree. I forgot to say than It was a try, an experiment, no was a payed work, otherwise I would had rent the F700, of course. It was just for fun and totally agree with your inputs. The grade and the sharpen was made with layers in AE, so It should have affect the should movie equal. I Will take a closer look ISO I think between 500 and 800 of I remember For us twixtor makes very distracting artefacts, but these guys jumping even notice ;-) I was experimenting as well how vimeo treats grain from film convert after compresion....try and error to learn. Thanks for your help @thepalalias

Password: spizz

Another SpizZ T6 test. I´m still satisfied with this patch...

It´s an event in Hamburg this weekend: britishflair.de/British-Flair.html And, of course, with british weather. Untouched footage (no grading...) - just some stabilization in post.

Camera: GH2 (hacked, SpizZ T6, Fader ND) Music: Henry Purcell - Abdelazer Suite II

@fran, good job.

OT: Poor bull.

Just made a side by side comparison between my all time favourite Sedna A AQ1 vs. Moon T7. The Sedna hack still looks the best to my eyes, more detailed. The test was done in midday, maybe the T7 looks better in low light, will do more tests. I read all the 19 pages on this topic, found only a few post what mentioned it worths to change from Sedna A to T7. I would like to hear your opinion and experience why.

Yeah, need more test, thank you for your comment, waiting for more opinion about Sedna users expereince about changing to Moon T7!

Driftwood "Moon T7"

@luekio reformat the card in the cam or in the computer. and try to reset the num count in settings menu maybe this would help

Any help is very appreciated...I get the "...due to limitation of the card" stop/error message, using a 32gb Extreme Pro 95MB/s card...either when zooming in or if the camera's been shooting for a while. Most often when shooting 720p. Moon t7 set e.

Should I try an earlier version?

Moon Trial 7, Set D. Slow motion parts were 60fps interpreted as 24fps. 1/125 shutter speed for 60fps, 1/40 for 24fps. Sandisk 64GB 45MB/s card. 14-42 Panny kit lens, mostly f5.6-8, Fader variable ND filter. ISO160, some 320.

@fran-I didn't turn on the sound monitor, but what I saw was outstanding cinematography. SOmeone else said you would have benefited from a better camera - yes that's true. However, Based one what I see here, you may well be able to buy a better system. Bravo!

What a strange sport! Makes sense though - testosterone vs testosterone. Actually, I loved that no animals or humans were injured in the film.

@kidgray Thanks! I shot originally in 720p/60fps (SH mode in manual).

@powderbanks Thanx man! I did a recording test with exactly the same settings. Pany 14-42. Moon T7. Some color grading. ND filter.

@ Driftwood With Moon T5 I could record 25p in FSH mode and it appeared to be 60i then I could achieve slowmotion by setting speed to 50%. On Moon T7 it doesn't work. Any thoughts there?

@Jim_Simon Footage looks great! What lens did you use?

This is my first official test of Driftwood moon T7...

@fran The bullfighter film is fantastic. Wonderfully cinematic and the slo mo is great. Some of the sound design yes could be a little subtler, but to have made this you deserve full praise.

Why are a lot of you using 720p for shooting? Doesn't that limit you. Why not shoot in 1080p then downscale to 720p if necessary when outputting in post?

Nebula T7 footage ungraded straight out of the camera. Not a lot of Nebula footage on here, thought I would post one with some guns and glaciers.

@aklumix Really nice looking footage

Some recent work, everything is Moon T7 except for a couple of glidecam shots from a 5D (which stick out to my eye, as not as nice)

Intravenus is the name of a particular hack. This is not the thread for that hack. The Moon hack is an Intraframe hack, meaning no temporal compression, every frame is recorded in full.

@gmoneystudio2010. Go to page 1 for the patch downloads.

@gmoneystudio2010 Go to page 1. Moon T5 or T7 for me personally. But if you're new - anything from Cluster X series is "high quality" 24p and 720 60p in my opinion. You'll have to do a little work. Load and test drive each of them to determine what patch best suits your preferences. Asking "Which Patch?" is kinda like asking "Which ice cream flavor?" It depends...take a sample taste of each. You'll know what you like. :)

last question what are your thoughts of 'DREWnet T9 and would you prefer it over Moon T7

moon t7 sete even if you dont have a 95 mbps card. you can use 24L mode and get the intra quality

@rsquires and @matt_gh2, thanks for your words. I'm doing the proper sound edition (sound guy is doing it), so, I will keep you updated. @kellar42, really cool video, very crisp. It is just out of the camera? Good job. Which lenses, settings did you use?

@studio2010 It's the same, tle lonely difference is : -setd 24p, 25p/50p, 30p & 60p -sete 23.976p, 25p/50p, 29.97p & 59.94p frame rates.

I shot this on both Moon T7 and Drewnet T9. The studio footage is T7 and the venue footage is T9.

DREWnet T9 Love it. :-)

@driftwood Superb Patch ever made Moon T7. i think there wont be any further improvements. Gh2 finally reached its Limits. Most promising results with clipwrap & FCP. 24p D setting works with ClipWrap 24frames conversion. Everything works well. 720p Modes looks great. Panny lenses finally looking soft and filmy. the only card it works it seems the sandisk 95mb/s 64gb extreme pro. i had error with other low profile cards. sandisk works likes a charm. thank u so much! Bravo! Bravo!

never mind found it but read something bout audio drift is this real ?