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Driftwood Cluster X series 3:│moon T7│ЅріzZ T6│Nebula T7│Drewnet T9│
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  • @lmackreath

    I've been using the SanDisk Extreme (not Pro) 128GB 45MB/s card with Moon 7 no problems. It even spans just fine.

  • @Jim_Simon

    have you ever tried it at higher fragmentation, for example, when you have few thousands images on it or maybe 50GB of data on it, it then stable as it is while freshly formated?

  • Has anyone tried the new sandisk extreme 80MB cards

  • After getting my GH3 I was a bit out of all hack development discussion, but recently tried Moon T5... and one word: AMAZING! I think I'll stick with this one for now, as it is veeeery stable with all my Sandisk Extreme Pro cards... Thanks @drfitwood for your amazing job!! Just a quick test...

  • Is the difference in quality of 720 between Drewnet T9 and Moon T7 worth choosing Drewnet over Moon? Any opinions?

  • @matt_gh2 Thanks Matt. Appreciate it.

  • @brant_moore,I also think so - ( Is the difference in quality of 720 between Drewnet T9 and Moon T7 worth choosing Drewnet over Moon? Any opinions? )

  • @brant_moore @kris.. It's rather difficult to answer those since you are comparing two different beasts and the "quality"/feel/look is such a subjective opinion. One is all Intra while other is 3gop, It all depends on you (the user) to evaluate your constraints (disk space being one of them) and motion rendition and other things that will be unique to the project you are doing. What driftwood has done is provided you with solution for all practical situations. Now all you need to do is spare some time- download both hacks you wanna compare and look at the footage. You will know yourself what you like.

  • @Aashay Thank you for the reply.

    I ask because I use 24H for work, and 720SH for personal action sports videos that need to be 60p. So having the best of both worlds at the same time is what I am looking for. I do not want to re-flash the camera each time I switch between personal shooting and work shooting.

    I guess what I really need is to learn what to look for when comparing two different settings.

  • Wasn't this the idea of Driftwood's Slipstream? Unfortunately I didn't hear of it for a long time.

  • @brant_moore Personally, I would advice you not to get caught up in these patches way more than what is needed. If you can't really tell the difference between settings then choose the one that's reliable and looks good to you overall with your lenses. These patches have been liked by people like Sir Coppola himself (who are wayyyyyyy better judge of the quality of the patches/picture than you and me, imho) Driftwood patches ARE quality! No matter what you pick. Now, for 60p some people say shooting intra (Moon) will be more useful. If you have tons of space to spare, go for it. Others (Like Drewnet who is incredible) says long gop patches (Drewnet) can render extremely amazing results as well. Do a little slow-mo test in a well lit environment and compare. We can talk here all day long about different patches but until you do the drill and you feel which patch is right for you, don't listen to anyone else.

  • @driftwood When I had Moon T7 loaded my footage was coming in with the first frame garbled. Has anyone else seen this? Is it just my camera? I'm using Sandisk 64GB 95MB/s cards.

  • @smsjr @driftwood I'm also getting the first frame garbled with Moon T7c setting. Sandisk Extreme 30MB/s 16gig.

  • The first three frames of the GOP in most settings soon settle down into lowest QP (best) and hi-bitrate recording. In the edit you'll probably find yourself trimming the moment you pressed the record button/first few frames. It doesn't effect the rest of the recording.

  • @smsjr @x_worpig_x I haven't counted on the first frames of a recording for a long time. Sometimes they work, sometimes they don't, and that's true of a lot of settings.

    @brant_moore The differences are often subtle and stability is one of the biggest concerns.

    But in regards to the differences, here are things you can use to differentiate. Remember, the only way to reliably test is to do one setting right after the other - pay attention to changing lighting conditions (sunsets, sunrises and moving clouds are not your friends) or scene content.

    Test 1: Static Detail Stress Test

    • Shoot an indoor deep DOF fine-pattern on a tripod (the canvas pattern in a colorful painting sharply focused is a good example) at an ISO setting that approximates what a real-world "high ISO" would be for you. Make sure to get a proper exposure.
    • Then examine it zoomed in to get a sense for it. I suggest comparing the top left and bottom right corners.
    • As @Driftwood has mentioned before, if a setting is aggressive in using bitrate quickly (like IntraVenus 1) then the bottom right corner will be less detailed than the top left.
    • You want to keep an eye out for macro-blocking and the "smooth vs preserve detail" slant of the setting in the noise pattern to pick what suits your taste.

    Test 2: Handheld Detail Test

    • Shoot a deep DOF handheld shot with a narrow angle shutter (as narrow as you can get away with while maintaining exposure). Subject is your choice but things with fine detail tend to be more demanding.
    • Try exaggerating camera motion (both slow and quick pans and shakes) and shooting subjects in motion. Higher GOP settings may sometimes suffer during scenes that combine high-detail with high-motion by running out of bitrate between I-frames at the end of a GOP sequence.
    • You are looking for detail, sharpness and macro-blocking in this test - zoom in again.

    Test 3 : Personal Taste Test

    • Shoot using settings similar to what you would use on-site. Normally this means wider open and wider angle shutter than Test 2 and a more interesting subject than Test 1.
    • Analyze the footage using the same techniques used above, in brief.
    • Pay closer attention to any stylistic concerns you might have (like motion rendering, edge emphasis, etc.) first zoomed in and then at normal magnification.

    When testing SH mode, keep in mind that no popular setting uses GOP1. So if you are looking at stills, don't just look at one frame - go through the whole length of the GOP sequence to look for variation between I, P and B frames.

  • Tried Nebula T7 with two Sandisk Extreme 32gb cards (one 30mbs, one 45mbs), foliage test, 24H, 25p, 50i and 720p50.

    Everything OK, impressive IQ :-)

    (spanning not tested)

  • As well as the first few frames being muddy, there is also for about half a second no audio. This is a limitation I found on both the GH1 and GH2. It's incredibly annoying if you just throw everything onto a timeline to output because you get a 1/2sec of silence between each clip. When I queried Panasonic about this they said it was to not record any on camera noise but that's just stupid. Audio should start when pic starts

  • @rsquires Just to make sure I understand correctly, when you say "clip" in this context, are you including different parts of a "spanned clip"?

    Or are you only referring to a silence right after you hit the record button?

  • @Brant-moore they do not make it too hard - if they want to shoot 720/60p, then DREWnet T9 - the best 720P worldwide. . . if they want to shoot 24p, then Moon T7. . . and all is well. DREWnet T9 720/60p is better than anything offered by other manufacturers staffers, even better than 1080p from Sony, Canon, etc.

    I'm filming at the moment with everything DREWnet T9 720/60p

  • @thepalalias the "clip" is button on and button off. I don't think I have ever done anything that needed to span to be honest. Most of my stuff would be very short. So I don't think this applies to a clip that is split in the camera because of spanning. But have a look at the beginning of a clip or take and you will see 11 frames of zero audio.

  • @Butt Totally right the DREWnet T9 is pretty gorgeous.

  • @Butt You're absolutely correct. The combination of these new Cluster settings put EVERY h264 codec implementation out there (Canon, Nikon, Samsung, etc) to shame. The quantisation results are often stunning. Indeed some people may call them quasi RAW (lets face it, we're doing bloody well out of an 8 bit), but indeed I am very happy with the results of Cluster over each GOP setting. You know even hi bitrate Pro Res provided by ML RAW DNG converters (and from a lot of what Ive seen from Black magic stuff) are often very soft.

    My advice to all is, RAW is great but if you don't require the hassle of a RAW post workflow/hd space/long takes etc... then DON'T sell your old GH2 just yet.

  • @dado023

    On my very first test of Moon Trial 7, I had about 42 GB of various clips on the card when I tested spanning. It did glitch once with a write error, but then spanned 10 times without a hitch, ending up with over 80GB on the card.

  • @rlima The Moon T5 stuff you posted makes me glad I didn't dash out and get a GH3. Very impressive. It has great detail but it's not "digital"

  • Don't forget also chaps, a lot of the research from the last 2 years done on the GH2 in the encoder will mean a speedy transition to the GH3's AVCHD modes in the future hack. Which means a lot of the Cluster stuff should work on the GH3 - imagine that with the improved sensor.

    UPDATE NEWS: Spizz T6 is still being fine tuned for HBR/FSH and 720p modes by myself, @towi and @bkmcwd - apologies for the delay

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