Official Low GOP topic, series 3

Hallvalla

@Bueller

Fantastic. Loved some of the choices. I didn't agree with a few, but that's the subjectivity of grading. They all were expertly executed though.

Thanks, @driftwood

johnnym

Nicely done.

driftwood

Bueller's graded showings are now up;-

eagleeye

My sincere apologies if I offended anyone, I realize I am coming in rather late. I am sure at this point the Quant values have been tested quite thoroughly and "4" is the best setting. Thank you again for all the long hours any and all who have been working so long on these patches.

eagleeye

@Zaven13
GOP size certainly has it's role in all of this, but I am speaking specifically about the Quantizer.
@driftwood
I just noticed the terminology used, "Auto Quantizer". This choice of words leaves me wondering if the Quantizer values 1-4 are not really QPs (Quantizer Parameters) but rather maybe a choice of different rate quantization models in this encoder's rate controller or maybe a predetermined range of QP to use?? Or maybe it's simply the QP initializer value? But then why limited to values 1-4? It's hard to say with the limited information available. But, nevertheless, given the copious amount of bits we are able to throw at these pixels, I would definitely lean toward lower the quantization values (which is what I think the "Auto Quantizer" value of 0 is trying to communicate)

Zaven13

@eagleeye
To the best of my knowledge, Quantizer valus are 0-4 (0 all motion, 4 all detail). May be your are mixing it with GOP values.

shian

@bkmcwd I just graded your latest test on vimeo. STUNNING quality!! Really looks amazing when graded. How stable is your patch, and what kind of record time are you getting with it?

eagleeye

@driftwood I'm trying to find the time to get some testing in myself. But in just looking at your Quantum 5 settings, I noticed you have the quantizer set to 4 (which given the 0-51 range is still pretty low). But finding the right quantizer value vs. bitrate can be a tricky thing to balance (and on top of that, it is subject material dependent too). Given the (what I believe to be very high) bitrate of 160 Mbps, I would have immediately started testing with a Quantizer value of 0 against complex and simple subject matter and then increase from there. The higher the bitrate and or ease of subject matter being compressed usually translates to a lower quantizer value yielding better results. I am trying to catch up with what has already been tried and tested and couldn't find any details in regards to quantizer testing for this patch. If the quantizer values have already been tested, I didn't want to re-test what has already been done. Thanks again for all your hard work!

spacewig

>>>Trust me the H setting is better, just do a streamparser test and you'll see ;-). After a few seconds the i frame size for the L setting will drop to around 2/3rds of the max of the H setting. But 'L' is great for longer recordings and perfect for most shots especially during daylight. ie It will cover most situations and is far superior to stock. If you're after highly detailed scenes and best quality, stick to H but of course, it costs you in storage size.<<<<br />
@driftwood

I would highly appreciate if you could expand on this a little further - not an elaborate dissertation but it would be nice to know in what kind of general scenarios the H mode would offer obvious advantages and, likewise, when the L mode would offer no noticeable disadvantages. I ask because this is new to me and I don't have enough understanding of the camera (or subject, pardon the pun) to draw conclusions.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers!

Etb

@driftwood && i waited this kind of response :-) I asked you that because some settings are configured into the patch setting for tester.. So if you tell me to try, i deduct that there is no risk. Ok so, on ze road again!

sohus

@WhiteRabbit
The experts are working on it. Changing stuff like that is very complicated. Don't hold your breath.

WhiteRabbit

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Custom Gamma Curve(s)

It has been raised earlier in this thread, and given the discussion unfolding regarding the current PB shootout, including a GH2 with your magic PTool v3.63d applied, and @driftwood Quantum patch, a valid point raised by @TheNewDeal pertains to adjusting the GH2's gamma curve, to give it a further edge.

GH2 is not 444 or 422, so have be careful not to have a curve adjusted too flat or broad for 420 and post work. Any prospect/progress exploring custom curves or adjusting the existing curves in the GH2?

Interesting read on point: http://www.lightillusion.com/zippdf/digital_praxis_gamma_curves.pdf

Mostly curious. I know you're very busy. Thank you.

bkmcwd

@driftwood
"You can get even bigger i frame sizes than 1M with chris's patches"

Of course, I know.
Since the frame size of the limit which can be played back in a camera is about 1.09M(?), I have set the maximum frame size as 1M for it to be less than it.
And I know why you are setting frame size of Intra to 800k.
It is very rational and I regard you as true.
Although I cannot explain well in English ...

Thanks always! :-)

driftwood

You can get even bigger i frame sizes than 1M with chris's patches. But look at it another way, which is the best 'average' frame size continually shooting? Test any chart :-) bkmcwd patches are a very good balance between frame sizes and short gop.

bkmcwd

@Oedipax
"does the 1M frame size max mean the largest possible frame is 200k more than the latest driftwood Quantum patches?"

Yes.

"Does that sound right?"

Although I think that your idea is right, I also consider another thing simultaneously.
I love Intra patches of driftwood, of course.
And I remember patches of Chris and Stray are admired.
Although the difference between 12GOP and 3GOP can be recognized with MY EYES, it is difficult to recognize the difference between 3GOP and 1GOP.
Moreover, the patches of Chris and Stray had realized the very beautiful pictures, when frame size became the maximum.
My friends and me felt the possibility of the improvement in image quality by setting frame size to 1M from the patches of Chris and Stray.
Then, I have tried to realize frame size of 1M with Low GOP.

Since I am poor at English, although I cannot do discussion, after completing Intra patch, I feel sense of incongruity for the atmosphere which had admired the patches of Chris and Stray completely having been lost.
Since I think that there should be various possibilities and liking, I would like to make the patch which continues to be different from other persons.

Thanks. :-)

driftwood

@Etb lower away and test. :-)

Swiss_Boy

@JDN are you sure that the transcend SDXC spans with Quantum because @Jspatz just said the opposit...don't know what to think know...

Strangways

@Leka the 30MB/s generally perform a bit better than the 45MB/s UHS-1 cards... bu they're not all that bad. Are you sure you have a genuine Sandisk card and not a third-party seller counterfeit?

Leka

Hello,

I have GH2 and SanDisc extreme pro 16gb 45MB/s card and I have lot of problems to find the best patch. Can somebody give me a hint? Almost everytime camera tells that card is too slow :(

Thank You a lot :)

Oedipax

@bkmwcd, does the 1M frame size max mean the largest possible frame is 200k more than the latest driftwood Quantum patches? I really like how detail is rendered in your test videos, so just wondering. I could see using GOP1 for general purpose moving shots and GOP3 for locked off landscapes where it's less about motion and more about the absolute max detail without artifacts. Does that sound right?

Etb

@driftwood can i lowering the 24L and FH/H video bitrate setting to what i want, or it is linked to 24H FSH/SH? Ideally i want to keep a low bitrate under 50M for obtaining a more usable workflow.. But i want to maintain your last high bitrate discover too^^

JDN

@Swiss_Boy, you shouldn't worry, seems to span with Quantum from reports I've read. But you never know what the mad genius driftwood will come up with next ;-)

Swiss_Boy

@JDN ok yeah i know we are never sure of what will happen next. But i think i will buy one transcend SDXC anyway because it looks like the best choice for price and GB's. And if it's not spanning with the quantum i will just use it with Aquamotion V.2 or something else..

JDN

@Swiss_Boy, please refer to this thread for all your spanning questions. But yet, it does appear that so far at least the transcend SDXC and sandisk SDXC cards both span at the highest settings -- be careful before buying too much though; in early days of the hack most class 10 cards spanned, and then more and more fell by the wayside as things proceeded; as always with technology buy what you absolutely need and no more.

Spanning thread:
http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/31359

bkmcwd

@soru
I made a new patch again. :-)
The maximum frame size is set to 1M as well as my usual patch.
Please try.

NOTE:
In this patch, it is ignored except 24p(24H).
Please combine with your favorite patch except 1080p.

UPDATE(2011.Dec.30th):
Second patch is "GOLGOP3-13 V2".
*Spanning in 24p with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC Card.

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