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Digital Bolex raw camera, no longer made
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  • @redgamma http://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use

    Generally, they do nothing. You'll need to go to court yourself.

  • @redgamma That's what I'm wondering too... what kind of infrastructure and framework is in place at Kickstarter for when one of these things goes horribly wrong and people are upset? They'd better figure it out quick, because I'm sure this isn't the first Kickstarter project that will over-promise and under-deliver.

    Edit: @VK damn. The amount of bad press they get on the internet when one of these blows up and people are left with nothing is going to be potentially crippling.

  • Yes the internal buffer will be a 256gb SSD drive which will allow for about an hour of continuous recording.

    And the reason to put speedy 256gb SSD (that is not cheap itself) and leave CF slots? How about simple SATA connector?

    @Oedipax

    They'd better figure it out quick, because I'm sure this isn't the first Kickstarter project that will over-promise and under-deliver.

    It is concept of this business. No one care. Otherwise you need bunch of skilled people.

  • The amount of bad press they get on the internet when one of these blows up and people are left with nothing is going to be potentially crippling.

    My prediction is not that they'll be left with nothing.
    They'll be left with constantly shifting dates after this they could get brick with Ethernet or USB 3.0 port and without any proprietary functioning software.

  • I think Kickstarter may be 'making reparations' to some people in the background to keep it from hitting the blogs. I'll be keeping an eye on this one.

    Maybe the dudes will just take the funds and run ;)

  • @redgamma i dont think they going to flee ... some people will be upset but thats minority ... when u establish hardcore fun base than u can get away with pretty much anything. redone example .... they beat dead line for few years and all the time funs cheer them up . in 5 months they going do same thing call for sympathy bust the hope and hype... try to sell t shirt hats and bags to fund camera production ... (cute girl and guy with cool hat c'mon u must trust them ) in best case people will get their camera in 1.5 to 2 years (probably not what they expect)

    in some forum post some guy sad if we can fund wall street we must fund this young people :)

  • Looks like Stu Maschwitz has renewed respect for what Digital Bolex are doing after initially being a bit harsh and premature in judgement. (read both the former blog post and the last one. http://prolost.com/

  • @Rambo

    I do not like this new post, as it is more emotions, not facts.
    I also do not understand how it can be unusual for guys to contact people who asked some questions.
    All the comments make very little sense. As constantly mentioning something about 444 color rendering in RAW camera.

    We also again hear about this "partners" (see information from whois above proving that they are owned by the same guys).

  • It sounds like some people will loose their investment virginity on this one. Like many first times, it often ends with one of them walking away crying...

  • hey guys - ok I know this whole deal sounds too good to be true, but just do a little research and you'll see it's completely feasible. I took a look at kodak's ccd sensors, and of course they're industrial/medical/vision related chips, which come with a supporting board and software - all you have to do, is buy it, slap it inside a case, make some audio capture hardware and plug in an lcd - it's not that hard - it's all off the shelf components:

    http://www.kodak.com/ek/US/en/Support_Hardware.htm

    They will probably use the truesense imaging IT-CCD hardware. Basically, this bolex is going to be a kodak kit, with some modifications. The kit already has mounts for the lenses, and already works plugged into a computer.

    The hardest part is the firmware of the camera, which they are outsourcing.

    This is my educated guess. Also, if you are worried then just wait and see what happens. They are definitely not going to make this from the ground up - they are just going to buy some parts, put them together, slap them in a case and sell it to you. For me, the cup is half full!! Let's hope they make it. And then let's hope we can hack it as well. ~cheers

    From the kodak site:

    IT-CCD Evaluation Hardware allows the performance of all members of the Truesense Imaging 5.5 micron Interline Transfer CCD Portfolio to be evaluated without the need to develop a new camera design. When combined with Sensor Studio II Software, this hardware provides full sensor control to enable both still and video capture, with support for ROI readout and pixel binning. In addition, custom image test functions can be developed to further evaluate sensor performance.

    The Evaluation Hardware consists of three components which are purchased separately: the appropriate Imager Board for the sensor being evaluated, an FPGA Board that drives the imager board, and a Lens Mount Kit that supports C, CS, and F mount lenses and also includes an IR cut-filter for color imaging. Note that all three components are required to evaluate a sensor.

  • Basically, this bolex is going to be a kodak kit, with some modifications. The kit already has mounts for the lenses, and already works plugged into a computer.

    This completely contradicts to their claims. 100%.
    They claim that this thing will work on full speed with 256Gb SSD, and will have dual CF slots.
    It'll have USB 3.0 port, SD connection to monitor, also small monitor on the unit.

    In no way it is related to the boards you mentioned.
    All of the manufacturers who use sensor use such board on early stage and to test some algorithms, but usually not in production (except if this is very low volume specialized kit, so you don't have money and just slam computer behind this board).

    The hardest part is the firmware of the camera, which they are outsourcing.

    To whom?

  • From EOSHD:

    EOSHD: Is the raw software and camera firmware being written yet?

    Elle: For the raw processing: we’ve talked with a number of software companies and are really excited by the one we’ve chosen to partner with, but we haven’t had the funds (yet) to start programming anything. It looks like we hit $250,000 on Kickstarter, so when the campaign ends we can get started! The firmware is being handled by our manufacturing partners in Canada.

    It'll have USB 3.0 port, SD connection to monitor, also small monitor on the unit.

    In no way it is related to the boards you mentioned.

    Well about the usb3.0 with sd connection, dual cf card slots and the ssd - they will probably use a single board computer with something that will enable the usb 3.0 + the cf card slots and ssd... Hence the huge case they have for the camera. Something like an arm or via board with the usb 3.0 controller already in or added by something like this:

    http://www.cypress.com/?id=3526

    I'm not an engineer so I can't say for sure what they will use, but everything you need to build it is out there without you having to build anything from scratch. You could build something like this yourself I'm sure. Single board arm computer + some stuff for industrial machine vision + kodak sensor + battery, lcd, audio board = digital bolex?

    I understand that the evaluation kit is not meant for production, but if they have an engineer he should be able to design a working board from the example circuits and datasheets, eh? So if there is any circuit to be designed, it will be the board that interfaces with the embedded computer and carries the sensor.

  • @thesecretof

    The firmware is being handled by our manufacturing partners in Canada.

    I already referenced this "partners".

    Well about the usb3.0 with sd connection, dual cf card slots and the ssd - they will probably use a single board computer with something that will enable the usb 3.0 + the cf card slots and ssd...

    Your comments really have little sense except protection of this guys (if we are talking about their words). Such baords with fast processor require significant power source, way beyond camera standards. They are also large (I mean here smallest ITX), so camera won't have any resenblance with Bolex.

    Something like an arm or via board with the usb 3.0 controller already in or added by something like this:

    ARM and cheap Via processors are normally not enough for raw video.

    I'm not an engineer so I can't say for sure what they will use,

    And why all this unfounded speculations?

    but if they have an engineer he should be able to design a working board from the example circuits and datasheets, eh?

    No.

    Ig you look above, I already said that in best case we are talking about camera made either for external computer recording or just big case contaning ITX board and external power socket that'll be unusable for 90% of backers.

  • @vitaliy If you read the press release you'll see that starter kit includes a 6kw diesel generator 220v.

  • I found out who's designing the circuits!!

    It's IENSO - Digital Camera Design - http://digitalcameradesign.com/

    http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/joedp/the-digital-bolex-the-1st-affordable-digital-cinem/posts

    Check out the updates, there's a video from the engineer talking about the partnership with digital bolex (update #3 - Meet Steelio).

    And they've just opened up a forum with lots more information:

    http://www.digitalbolex.com/forum/building-the-digital-bolex/what-to-include-what-not-to-include/

  • I found out who's designing the circuits!!

    LOL. I already suggested you to look above. And also look at IENSO site. It looks like they are all companies owned by one guy.

    Check out the updates, there's a video from the engineer talking about the partnership with digital bolex

    You started to repeat yourself.

    And they've just opened up a forum with lots more information:

    Absolutely no camera design information is contained in this links, rather than some fantasies.
    And funny fact that they do not like the shape of Bauer batteries :-)
    Overall, every peace of information I see make picture even more horrible.

    Btw, fact that they do not have HDMI output put's an end to speculations about computer board (as all modern board have such feature for exactly $0 extra).

  • prolost.com interview qoute:

    "But the Digital Bolex also lists JPEG and TIFF output, so real-time debayering is in the plans. Joe estimates that a high-quality JPEG frame could be about 1/3 the size of a DNG frame." now i'm sure that they dont know what they are talking bout ... real time debayering and tiff jpeg output .... that is more complex than red epic ...

  • Image codec integration is not an in camera thing for the Digital Bolex, since our stance on this is I want to give you the RAW sensor data as untouched by me as possible. So this means the color space and codec would come from a Bolex Transcoding software

    For me it looks like bunch of fantasies. And they change each new day.

  • guys from kineraw give as a prototype s35 and video sample and dng from their s8 camera and they send dng from s35 to Dan Hudgins ... they promise s16 wit cineform RAW ... their spec looks real and manageable ... and they get less than 1% of dbolex attention and not to mention any money .... why? because presentation guy look like a geek and barely speak any english ... god i hate marketing ...

    lets waste no time on this BS ,,, we got real thing to do ....

  • according to the first blurb on their forum (regarding sound bit rate): "That is pretty much the industry standard as far as I know, and I haven't researched it yet..."

    now, even my 12 year old daughter knows what the standard is for cinema sound (48k 24b), but this supposed industry insider with over a decade of experience doesnt! or hasnt researched it yet or is foolish enough to admit it having promissed delivery of the final product in august!

    a lot of marketing BS as a lot of people have noticed.

    but the marketing doesnt make sense either! now, is this a camera with a vintage bolex film-look (whatever that is) or a RAW machine with 4:4:4 and 12 stops of DR? it seems they were trying to please every potential backer and have succeeded!

  • marketing doesn't need to make sense .... only goal is to make money ... yes they succeeded... and who is going to pay ... all people who need real tools for their work.. how many of them who send them money will go and buy kineraw or Elphel or any other independent produce cameras after they been conned ... cut sales and probably bankrupt ...

  • RAW machine with 4:4:4

    Again. Raw is raw. It is grayscale, with specific (Bayer) pattern. So, refering to 4:4:4 (as it is YCbCr) is pointless (it is also pointless as many people noticed for normal picture made from such low resolution sensor).

  • "Image codec integration is not an in camera thing for the Digital Bolex, since our stance on this is I want to give you the RAW sensor data as untouched by me as possible. So this means the color space and codec would come from a Bolex Transcoding software

    For me it looks like bunch of fantasies. And they change each new day."

    If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck

  • @Siddho

    I've read that 16-bit remark too. That's a very sketchy claim and demonstrates naivety. Not cool.

  • Ok I agree with everything that's being said here. It's fishy. Would I buy one right now? Definitely not - I'm just waiting for manual controls on the GF2 to be able to dump my canon 60D. (btw thank you so much for working on this) I personally don't like CCDs due to the vertical streaking problem - I prefer rolling shutter and no streaking than global shutter with streaking. (the day I make an action movie I will reverse this preference though)

    Would I recommend the digital bolex to anyone? No, I would not recommend anyone to buy it now, as I see is the feeling of the people in this forum.

    But do I believe that this is possible and that it will actually be made as per specifications? Yes - I believe. Kickstarter is made for people to believe, to dream, and to try to make the impossible happen. It's the chance for some to do what they thought would never be possible otherwise. I think everyone who buys into it knows that there's a risk that things will be delayed, or even not happen at all. For many people that risk is worth taking, and for this I truly admire them. Am I a fool for believing? Yes, I am a fool.

             “To accomplish great things, we must not only act, but also dream; not only plan, but also believe.”                
               - Anatole Frances