Official Low GOP topic, series 3

aljimenez

Oh man @randolfo never mind the hack, that is awesome music. BTW the video is great! Al

RRRR

@Driftwood: I tried 50i with your newest patch - I don't have streamparser but - it seems like proper Interlaced footage rather than PsF. Am I missing something or how have you managed your PsF?

Very interesting with the file restore.. I'll try it out during the day!

LittleD

@BenjaminDUPLAIX

Remember the UHS-I is problematic, and the 30MB/S (video hd or not) seemed more reliable.

randolfo

stoney

ah this thread is always full of goodies. yummy yummy!!!

@driftwood that's like 2.5GB data for 30s duration. sounds great for a short commercial. if your GH2 passes out, see if it spits out a number. it might be "the" number from π (1998). haha. many thanks for your work.

chauncy

I was able to get 720p seaquake working stable and playing back in camera through my zoom autofocus tests with the 14-140 lens. I only use sandisk 30mb to eliminate that variable.

Took aq down to 1 and lowered the frame limits for 720/60 by two thousand.

This is the first high quality 720p patch that looks stable so far through this test.
24p has always been a rock.

I don't discuss interlaced or use it because it is evil.

UPDATE: if in camera playback doesn't work, turning the camera on and off may fix it.

driftwood

its a little personal - my girlfriend - nothing rude - but f2 on a 50mm macro - up very close - exposes all her age lines etc... so I dont think Ill be uploading it to Dropbox. But I would like others to try out Panny's software and report - record a 1080p24 using seAQuake and leave it till it hits the 4gig limit and stops by itself. Bring in card to computer and use Pannys AVCcam restore utility. Tell me what happens once it's restored to your hard disk. It could be an anamolity of course.

disastronaut

@driftwood Very strange and very interesting. I seriously want to see that 00000.mts file!

driftwood

seAQuake test: Here's one for the great mathmaticians. I just used Panasonic's utility 'Restore AVCCAM' which recovered a first recording on the card 00000.mts which had failed to span to... wait for it... 8.59 Gb!!!! A strange anomolity or is there more to what is going on than we know on the Panny seafloor!? I mean 639mbps is like a UFO flying out of the water...

btw The recording looks fucking amazing.

RRRR

@Tobsen Np! I guess the bottomline with high-iso + high bitrate patch is that it can be used for a certain aesthetic.. but it might not be useful for everyone.

lolo

@sam_stickland ups, sorry, you are right i should analyse first the bitrate of the 2 vids, before jumping to conclussions

sam_stickland

@lolo High ISO = more noise = more work for the encoder => higher bitrate => more chance of a card speed error?

JDN

@toxotis I guess it's a matter of preference, however I should point out that those are from still photography guides, I work with DoPs with 20+ years experience and they all underexpose by at least one stop, and this advice is seconded in a lot of books on digital video cinematography. In good part that is because life-like skin tones are best generated when you keep that in 18% or lower (eg where a grey card would register), aka Zone 5 (maybe Zone 6). You go above that, which you would if you are exposing to the right, and you start to push skin tones into a zone where much of the colour detail is lost and they get washed out, "chalky" and unrealistic. Once they are in this zone it is difficult to pull them back in colour correct because you can't get back colour detail you never had in the first place (whereas if you are underexposed, you can always loose a bit). Anyway, this is my last comment on this topic because I realize it is off topic somewhat -- the connection I would make is that with GOP1 and high bit rates, you can rescue under exposed skin tones.

You may have seen this already, but check out my video at

for an example of how under exposing leads to proper skin tones -- it got crunched a bit more by vimeo, and yes, a lot of it pushed off to the left and goes to black, which might be a problem with landscape photography, but for video work, the golden rule, which I think most people do not realize, is expose for skin tones, which generally means under exposing one stop and, if necessary, fiddling a tiny bit with colour correct in post if it is too dark, which thankfully, we finally can do with driftwood's high bit rate low GOP patches.

lolo

Just tried SeAQuake and i have an interesting discovery
on a kingston 100x

on iso 800 records up to 24 secs
on iso 160 records up to 1min:45 secs

(same scene, same light, same other settings, same lens (canon fd))

this probably means what was one of the conclussion on this thread: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/1175/can-we-hack-the-.jpg-burst-mode-for-video-use#Item_13

that higher iso uses higher camera buffer, and that increases the writing time, or in this case, the bandwidth needed to flush to the sd what is inside the camera buffer

and _gl thinks that "probably due to the NR processing (higher ISO needs stronger NR)", so
if the Noise Reduction can be really turned off, we will probably be able to have more camera buffer, to increase the quality,

so maybe the patches can be push even further if the noise reduction gets hacked

bkmcwd

@driftwood
Your work is amazing!!!
Since 'SeAQuake' was very very wonderful, I was surprised when I combined your Encoder settings with my patch.
Super fine grain noise is fantastic BEAUTIFUL also in my 3GOPs!
How can I understand this know-how?
Supposing you do not care, I will make the "Driftwood Tune" version of all the my patches. :-)

I appreciate efforts of your huge quantity!

toxotis70

@JDN... According to this , its always better to exposure to the right.
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/optimizing_exposure.shtml
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml
http://ronbigelow.com/articles/exposure/exposure.htm

Tobsen

@RRRR
thanks for the info. Didn't see that thread.

Good advice with the contrast. Personally, I would never shoot at ISO12800, but I just wanted to see what the hack/patch is capable of. If it is a general problem, then sorry @Driftwood for thinking it was your patch.

RRRR

@Tobsen re: banding, the issue is well known and covered here: http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/693/gh2-showing-fixed-darker-bandstripe-20-pixels-high-across-footage#Item_52

I'm assuming that is what you are talking about. I also have some banding issues on high ISO but I can manage them by using high contrast settings in the camera. Shooting in black and white also helps, as well as avoiding low contrast surfaces. (Banding becomes a lot less apparent when there is detail that breaks the banding patterns), and dissapears in the shadows. IMO highest ISO is mostly useful for creating a look that resembles 8mm film - and not a way to handle low light per se. (There is no substitute for proper lighting if one wants a clean image)

It has nothing to do with a particular patch.. although it's propably easier to fix in post with gop1. (if you want to)

Tobsen

@JDN,
maybe there is some confusion going on. Sorry for that. The ugly noise problem doesnt come from the hack patch, but from the stock settings. I know that a faster lense would be better, but we needed that stock lens for that shoot because it works with the internal stabilizer which is needed for some octocopter shots (reduces the vibrations coming from the rotors). But thanks.

Now the green band thing. I used the Voigtländer Nokton 25mm wide open at f0.95 so that is probably the fastest you can go. I didn't test every single ISO setting, but at ISO12800 there is a green band.

JDN

@toxotis70, this should be moved into another topic, but are you really advocating clipping highlights? Every DoP I've worked with underexposes by at least a stop -- golden rule of digital cinematography is never lose your highlights because you can never get them back. To avoid noise, use the highest bit rate, lowest ISO that will still allow you to expose properly.

@Tobsen -- Smooth -2,-2,0,-2 -- use a faster lense. I've shot by lamplight with my 1.4 and not much more with my 2.5 -- anything slower than that, you're going to get noise in low light because you're pushing the iso so high.. It's not the patch, it's the glass -- well, at least the grain. The green band thing, I don't know. Shooting with the fastest lens possible will also allow you to use a black frost to take away some of the edge and grain.

Tobsen

@toxotis70,
thx. I think that is what I did though. Still looked ugly in my opinion with the stock video mode.

@Driftwood,
I did a quick test with your AQuarius2 patch and noticed a green band in the lower Third of the frame at ISO12800 in 1080p24 mode. Have you noticed that?

TrackZillas

Hey guy's just shot this quick video with @driftwood requanted for the intro used magic bullet looks, and the rest ungraded haven't tried the new PTools yet, or the New patch yet.
Lens 20mm f1.7
ISO 640 - 1250
Style Dynamic (-2,-1,0,-2)
Custom W.B

toxotis70

Its better to expose to the right.
Thats mean, use the highest ISO - f stop you can , until highlight clipping.
The image may be a lot brighter that yous eyes can see, but there will be less noise and you can lower exposure in post.

Tobsen

@Driftwood,

I am planning to try one of your high bitrate/low GOP patches for shooting video using a octocopter. We shot a laser show for a client at night recently and we needed a higher iso value than 3200. Besides that I found that the "stock" image quality in video mode is quite ugly at 3200. So the next time (which is hopefully this month) I I hope I can improve our work using a hacked GH2. Do you think one of your patches is suitable for such a job? Of course, I will post the footage afterwards! Cheers, Tobsen

paglez

@Driftwood
" To get the progressive content out of the wrapper you have to use a PsF application."

I'm trying to get the correct workflow. Wich is your favorite PsF apllication?
Thanks

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