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GH2 Cake v2.3: reliability and spanning in 720p, HBR, 24p, and VMM at 2-2.5x stock bit rates
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  • Some Cake v2 video (80% VMM, Vibrant -2 -2 -1 -2) from Stone Mountain:

    24p judder was driving me nuts, so I was looking for stable HBR and 80% VMM settings. All the HBR video I took, no matter the patch, looked terrible, but I found out that Media Player Classic was trying to deinterlace it. With that resolved, Cake v2 is fantastic and is the only patch I've tried that is stable in all modes. I can't see a difference between 24p and 80% VMM. HBR is only slightly worse and has smaller file sizes and audio. 1080i is... not great, but I don't see why you'd use that.

    Oh, and the judder is not so bad if you don't pan too fast. Thank you, balazer.

  • sam, check the original file. It looks just fine to me. Cake v2 in HBR mode has a max average bit rate of 45-48 Mbps.

  • Maybe it is compression, sorry. Will compare these settings with sanity, as I really want a decent hbr setting and not something that's 70+mb/sec.

  • adventsam >Interlace artifacts, You mean on the red flowers? I don't think that's interlace artifacts. Using Vibrant profile probably accentuates the red channel, looks more like compression artifacts. You really have to be careful with the red, i find smooth profile dials it right down.

  • @adventsam did you check the raw mts file ? It can be downloaded at vimeo.

  • I see loads of interlace artifacts, anyone else?

  • Uploaded Cake 2.0 test 2 ... (must wait 30 min as i have free account ...) Raw MTS, you can download at vimeo...

    Average rate: 31 mbit/sec

  • @frerichs Nice! Like the black bg. Nothing to do with the pictures, but it was a bit wierd to watch because the audio is swapped L-R. Of course I realise this is just becase it's not yet mixed. Got me thinking, though, that because I come from an audio background, I should really say that the pictures are the wrong way round!

  • @frerichs Thanks for that. Seems 720p gets little love but it's great for internet/small scale stuff. Also has the added bonus of being able to do 1/2 speed slomo without frame blending etc. HBR is good and of course 24p but it chokes the macbookpro a little.

  • Cake v2.0 1080 24p using Nostalgic -2 X 4.

    AF100 was main camera (working on a complimentary profile for the GH2) using an Olympus 14-35mm f/2.0.

    GH2 lenses were 25mm Voigtlander f/.095 (filming from the left) and LOMO OKC1-50-1 f/2.0 (filming from the right.)

    3200K white balance, 200 ISO.

    Slight color adjustment, Spanned fine using SanDisk 95mbps 64Gb cards.

  • @sir_danish Sorry to be unclear. Reload original Firmware 1.1 or uncheck options. What I believe I did was load one ini file in PTools and then another resulting in mixed settings, yielding some astonishingly bright strobing at highlighted edges.

  • Other Class 10 cards should work, but I only guarantee spanning with SanDisk Extreme cards.

    rsquires, 720p H mode probably will span, and SH mode probably won't.

    sir_danish, to reset settings in PTool you uncheck all of the boxes. It's easier to just reload PTool.

  • @rsquires, I just shot an long interview (2 GH2s and AF100) using the Cake 2.0 patch and I had no problems with spanning using 1080 24p. From what I have read, 720p can be tricky and haven't tried using this patch in that mode.

    I've also used Lee Powell's Flowmotion v1.11 patch and it spans fine, again in 1080 24p as well as Driftwood's Dark Matter V3 patch.

    I'm using the 95mbps 64Mb SanDisk Extreme cards, though, as the slower cards were hit or miss.

    To be safe in all modes, I understand that @Mpgxsvcd's No Adverse Affects patch (42mbps) is probably the best route to go if you are doing long takes.

  • i have trasender class 10 and dont have a problem with this

  • I have some SanDisk Extreme cards (20 or 30 MB/s) but also a couple Class 10 Transcend cards. Is Cake going to be okay on these Class 10 cards?

  • @jam: "Be careful that you reload the original firmware or reset all options before you run PTools"

    How can options be reset before running PTool? I have to reset options >within< PTool and therefor it has to run already. Or do I get something wrong here?

  • I am looking to do long records with 720p on the GH2. I have no real clue about spanning and whether it is an issue at this resolution. I will be shooting 15-20 minute takes. Will Cake do the business for me here? From what I have read 1280x720 50p doesn't get a lot of attention when hacks are formulated. And it seems Cake is more focussed on HBR and 24p

  • @pvdog Amazing, i must get an GF2 as B camera, great video, high quality ...

  • I see. If you look at the stock values, Panasonic is apparently always trying to make them 30 or 24 total: 1 9 0 0 20 0; 1 7 0 0 16; 1 28 0 1 0 0; 1 22 0 1 0 0.

  • pvdog, it wasn't a mistake. My settings are GOP6 for 720p/60, which makes the ratio of I-frames to P-frames is 1:5. It's GOP5 for 720p/50, so the ratio of I-frames to P-frames is 1:4. I'm not certain if the ratio really matters, or just the totals or just the P-frame values. I just like to keep the ratios correct, and it did what I wanted. I believe the Opt2 GOP tables are for 720p using P-frames, and the Opt1 tables are for 720p using B-frames.

  • Thanks balazer, now it makes sense. Somehow I read in this forum that the order of GOP table was like this: I-eve, P-even, B-even, I-odd, P-odd, B-odd; that was why I had no idea about what was going on.

    Based on your description, there seems an error in your ini file:

    720p60 Opt2 GOP Table=12, 60, 0, 0, 0, 0 720p50 Opt2 GOP Table=12, 48, 0, 0, 0, 0

    60 and 48 should have been swapped.

    I'll start a new thread to make it bold for GF2 owners' attention.

    Attached setc.ini is the stable one fully tested; sete.ini has slight changes (from 10 20 20 10 10 10 to 10 20 20 10 15 15) based on above balazer's explanation with 90/72 GOP length. The latter should be even more stable as bitrate is lower than the former (still much higher than balazer's), but I have not tested it much yet.

    The following clips were shot with the 10 20 20 10 0 0 GOP table, it was not fully stable and I lost some very cool shots. I tried all methods such as narrower top and bottom and lower total bitrate as balazer suggested above, but could not prevent occasional crash until I changed 0 0 to 10 10.

    I had to re-compress the video to reduce the size for easier uploading; so what you see can be only even better. These are simply the very best video from GF2 I've seen by far. I believe the new 10 20 20 10 15 15 should be very close in terms of image quality and motion smoothness.

    Thank VK, I've donated, will donate more if I'll get a GX1 or GF3.

    I started a new thread to get GF2 owners' attention:

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2681/gf2-so-far-the-best-and-100-stable-patch#Item_1

    setc.ini
    3K
    sete.ini
    3K
  • @balazer : Thanks for the explanation. Very clear and useful in wiki challenged times.

  • Excellent, Balazer, thank you so much. I'll definitely give it a go - my battery is loaded and the ini is ready to put into ptools. Thanks! There is a sort of "settings fatigue" because often the pictures don't look that different between settings (they're all very good). So if I'm drawn to return to a particular one (in my case, Cake) then it's probably because it really does suit the stuff I shoot and the settings / post-pro I do. It just "sits" very well and I find it easier to know that it will look good (if that makes sense). So it's useful to know what went into Cake 2.0. Thank you - I'll have a go with it!

    Cheers...and thank you also for all your work.

  • Mark, yes, Cake v2 really is better for 24p than previous versions are. I've lowered the quantizer setting from 22 to 18, which improves image quality when the video can be encoded at the lower quantization level within the bit rate limit. When the encoder operates at the bit rate limit, adaptive quantization looks much better than fallback mode. I-frames and P-frames will still be encoded with equal quality and maintain the ratio of frame sizes (I-frames larger than P-frames by some factor). Fallback mode doesn't do that. Using fallback mode for rate control was a nice trick, but only since I didn't know how to make the rate control work properly at the time. Even with v2 operating at slightly lower max bit rates, the picture looks better with the different rate control scheme. The difference is not huge in 24p, but it is huge in HBR. All of this work was motivated by HBR, because it simply did not look good before, and now it looks very good. I know people have settings fatigue, with so many different choices and frequent changes. I went out of my way to make sure that v2 would be rock solid, and so far at least, I can say I have not had a single write error, lockup, or spanning failure, and no one has reported any. I hadn't with v1.2 in 24p either, but I think spanning failures were a possibility with the way I had set the bit rate limits. Fallback mode is slow to kick in. Several GOPs will pass before it starts to limit the bit rate, and before that happens, with the GOP length and quantizer setting I'd used the bit rate could go as high as 100 or 110 Mbps, which would be enough to cause a spanning failure at GOP3 using an Extreme card if that were to happen at the moment of spanning. I did experience spanning failures in HBR mode in Cake 95. Adaptive quantization reacts very quickly to bit rate changes, setting the quantization level for the next frame after a change in the bit rate of the last few frames. So I can get closer to the spanning limit using adaptive quantization than with fallback mode. But even with adaptive quantization's fast response, the camera can't predict how large the next frame will be when coded with a certain quantization level, so you can still encounter bit rate peaks above the max average bit rate. But those peaks will be very short - generally limited to one GOP, and I've set the bit rate such that the highest peak I'd ever seen in all of my testing is still low enough to span.

    I don't anticipate making any more changes to 24p, VMM, 1080i, and HBR. I do plan to go back and make 720p span.

    PVdog, I don't have a GF2, so I can't say exactly what is happening there. Increasing the GOP length will decrease the maximum average bit rate. Increasing the values in the GOP table will decrease the maximum average bit rate. The values in the GOP table are counts per half second of the following:

    1. I-frame (progressive) or I-frame first field (slice 1, intra coded)
    2. P-frame (progressive) or P-frame first field
    3. P-frame second field
    4. I-frame second field (slice 2, p-coded)
    5. B-frame (progressive) or B-frame first field (slice 1)
    6. B-frame second field (slice 2)

    If you use a GOP length different from stock or a mix of P- and B-frames that is different from stock, the encoder will not use the stock bit rate. Changing the values in the GOP tables is a way to compensate for that and get whatever max average bit rate you want at any particular GOP length. I try to keep the GOP table values in the ratio of actual frame/field counts per second of video. The Top bit rate setting should then be set to the max average bit rate you've achieved, or slightly below it, and the bit rate setting and Bottom bit rate should be set relatively.

  • @pvdog care to attach settings? The GOP table changes make sense to me, but increasing the FSH/SH bitrate from 55000000 to 99000000 to gain stability on the GF2? (almost a x2 increase)