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Official Low GOP topic, series 3
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  • @WhiteRabbit
    Both the VGA and HD mode in mjpeg crashes. That is if you do continuos fast panning. It will looks very motion blur on camera LCD then stop recording.
  • I've also noticed better skin tones with mjpg mode like @WhiteRabbit says the clips have less green.
  • oh, this has so much magic, but the downsides are big.
    i just wish we would be able to change avchd to anamorphic benefits somehow.
    i have my 2x kowa ready at my closet ;)
  • Here's a test of MPEG VGA Mode in 2160x810 and ISO 12800!
    This frame size is perfect for 2x anamorphic attachments, but image quality is rather unusable compared to AVCHD imo. This is just a test in b&w so can't say something about skin colors.. but sharpness and artifacts are much worse than in AVCHD. Here's the video:
  • Again, thank you for the further information, @johnnym. Yes, I have tested both AVCHD 1080p24 24H and MJPEG HD and VGA with the anamorphic. With AVCHD 1080p24 24H anamorphic recordings, I apply a height transform in the NLE, value of 100 down to 56, it looks correct aspect, and yes, a very wide image. I just prefer the look of AVCHD recordings at this stage.

    Interested to learn if @Vitaliy can explore AVCHD aspect ratio adjustments in PTool in subsequent releases, although it may not be as beneficial coming from 16:9 mode.
  • The AVCHD resolution cannot be changed in the current PTool. Also note that the aspect ratio of every mode (MJPEG HD 16:9, MJPEG VGA 4:3, AVCHD 16:9) cannot be changed in the current PTool. So we have only the resolution of the MJPEG to work with.
    Of course, you can shoot AVCHD with your 1.75x anamorphic and stretch in post. It will look very good (although maybe a little wide :) but still very nice!)
  • @johnnym, thank you very kindly for your reply and explanation. I will read a few times and try and assimilate this information.

    MJPEG VGA appears mostly correct with my Isco (2160/810=2.66). However, I am leaning toward AVCHD, curious to learn if AVCHD 1080p24 24H can be manipulated to be 1920 x 720 (1920/720=2.66)? If so, increase data rate of recording, no height transform in NLE, perhaps other benefit? Just a thought, @driftwood?
  • @WhiteRabbit

    If you know the exact ratio of your anamorphic, you can just multiply that with the number of pixels the filming mode is wide (assuming you want to shoot at 1080 HD MJPEG, you multiply 1920 with 1.33x to arrive at 2560) and enter that number in PTool MJPEG settings

    So for instance you want to shoot in VGA mode (which has a 4:3 aspect ratio) with -say- an 1.73 anamorphic, you enter 810 (assuming you want to shoot at 810) and (810 x 4:3 = 1080) 1080x1.73 = 1401 and the picture will be stretched according to your anamorphic's stretch.
    Or say you want to shoot in HD mode (which is probably too wide for a 1.75 anamorphic, but let's calculate for the sake of demonstration) then you leave the 1080 height and enter (1080 x 16:9 = 1920) 1920 x 1.75 = 3360 (probably too big for the GH2, but you get the point)

    Say you want to shoot VGA mode with your 1.72x anamorphic and you want to shoot at a height of 1080p, then you enter 1440 (= 1080 x 4:3) times 1.72, so 1440x1.72 = 2476
    Your picture will then be 2476x1080p, which has a final aspect ratio of 2.29, little short of the Academy 2.35 aspect ratio
  • @driftwood, Quantum Beta 4 observations:
    Isco Cinemascope Ultra Star 65mm (front half end of projector lens)
    Using a San Disk 32GB 30MB/s HD Video SD card. Works fine with SeAQuake, not spanning, of course.

    MJPEG - HD setting = 2048 x 864 recording.
    Applied a reduction to the height value 100 to 70 in NLE, image now appears correct.
    Records well, no drops outs, a few basic shots of my children in the room, house lights on in the evening.
    Colour rendition of MJPEG appears closer to skin tones, as opposed to AVCHD, MJPEG may have less of that green/yellow tinge in skin tones, 2500K WB for all mode tests. As mentioned by @Oedipax, there is an obvious harshness to MJPEG recording. Further, as @johnnym has mentioned, above, perhaps the resolution is not really there? Perhaps the noise in the image is making it appear sharper, yet lacks resolution? I do not have a resolution chart, so I can not conduct any crude comparison tests. That said, it is amazing that yesterday I was capturing some clips at 2560x1080 out of this amazing little hand held camera, the GH2.

    MJPEG - VGA setting = 2160 x 810 recording.
    Image mostly correct aspect, perhaps I could apply height variation from value 100 to 105 in NLE, image appears correct.
    @gh2hacked, you mentioned recording fails, was it this specific VGA mode for you too, or all modes? Only this one failed for me everytime. I tried some rapid pan/tilt for a few seconds, but recording soon failed when settling down and pointing at talent. Again, all indoor lighting, evening time.
    @driftwood, if you increased the data rate on this one with the tweaks in Quantum Beta 4, then perhaps we may need to drop the rate a little?

    AVCHD 1080p24 24H setting - 1920 x 1080 recording.
    Applied a reduction to the height value from 100 to 56 in NLE, image now appears correct.
    I am leaning towards the view that AVCHD is preferred, including anamorphic use. Smoother less noisy image. Using my anamorphic Isco is proving a little soft for my liking. Only a few days experimenting, so I reserve further comments for now.

    @driftwood, is it possible I make my own custom X and Y values in AVCHD, such as 1920 x 720, if so, how?

    Thank you, @driftwood, et al.
  • @driftwood thanks will test away
  • @driftwood
    Quantum V4 is not stable for fast pan motion on my test. Just test it out with my Sandisk 30mbs and it fail on fast repeated panning. Also does not playback on camera. Didn't even show clips info, just show a thumbnail. In Mjep, Is it common to see the remain time at 2minute when SD card is not full? Waiting for a stable in camera playback patch.
  • Eager to test~ but still gotta wait for my 2x ana to come...
  • *** NEW BETA *** Quantum v4
    Changed HD MJPEG to a step down in size for durability reasons: Big improvements further still on quality for both modes HD & VGA and high datarates not seen before. Anamorphic sizes are;-
    720p30 width=2048, 720p30 height=864
    480p30 width=2160, 480p30 height=810
    If you change either size settting to 1920x1080 for non anamorphic users you're good to go with great looking footage. Appears very good actually but let me know :-)
    2. Very slight improvements on 1080p24, 1080i, 720p.

    Test away and report results.

    Nick
    Driftwood 'Quantum' BETA 4 - seta.zip
    813B
  • @oedipax I'll have to try it out, thanks. I've heard about it on a numbr of occasions.

    @driftwood Great to know, thanks. I'll definitely read up on that.
  • @spacewig Also check out and read about the ISO bug, which on certain settings gives more noise due to the bug. People have identified methods of going up and down and which ISO settings work best. Do a search on the top right of Personal-View.
  • @spacewig, Neat Video is the current favorite for noise reduction. It's great!
  • @proaudio4 Thanks for the quick reply. I wasn't aware of that, though I've spent hours reading here and elsewhere in an attempt to learn about the Gh2. I saw a youtube video doing a low noise test with driftwood's seaquake and there was a remarkable difference between his patch and stock firmware. There was no mention of post denoising. I assumed that the images were straight from the camera. Speaking of which, what is the preferred denoising software?

    Cheers
  • @spacewig,
    Since you're new, you may want to read up on this topic.
    The reason you're not seeing as much noise with the stock firmware is due to it's being smeared by macroblocks due to more aggressive compression.

    There's nothing magic going on here. It's not like Vitaliy added code to produce noise ;)
    The bottom line is the hack now allows us to capture more of what the sensor is really seeing.
    Also, you are now able to make a better model of noise and remove in post opposed to murky smeared swarming compression artifacts.

    Also, driftwood always improves his 24H, so if you're after the latest and greatest, "currently" it's Quantum V3.
  • Hello, new poster & GH2 owner.

    To being with, immeasurable thanks to all those developing and testing new patches - you know who you are. I will be making a donation shortly. Also want to make it clear that my end goal is to shoot narrative film, not get caught up in pixel-peeping or attaining digital video data nirvana. But I appreciate the efforts of those who do.

    I want to share the following observation: I did a low light test yesterday night to compare stock and Quantum. I was surprised that the stock firmware was less noisier. Anyone else have the same results? What patch is currently best for low noise, SeaQuake?

    Thanks for in advance for any info/advice. Cheers.
  • I hope anyone proves me wrong saying the VGA mode is lacking resolution.
  • @WhiteRabbit, thanks for all that great info! Not much to add yet as I haven't shot any anamorphic with Quantum beta 3 yet, but hopefully soon.
  • @Oedipax, after looking at my skin tones test footage, and comparing head and shoulder shot footage using three different Quantum Beta 3 settings, namely:
    1. MJPEG 2160x810 VGA with Isco anamorphic attached to taking lens;
    2. AVCHD 1080p24 24H with Isco anamorphic attached to taking lens; and
    3. AVCHD 1080p24 24H with Lomo 75mm lens attached,
    I found that number 3, Lomo 75mm, was clearly the sharpest, most detailed, and smoothest looking footage. As for the anamorphic setups. both 1 and 2 were softer than 3 when comparing, of course, as the Isco is chaining more glass on existing glass. Then 2 being sharper than 1. For the close up shot, MJPEG was perhaps slightly sharper, yet harsher, as you clearly observed and pointed out. Earlier today, I shot some wider shots, focus on infinity, and the detail in more distant shots make the MJPEG anamorphic footage appear sharper and detailed, as opposed to AVCHD which is smoother and less detailed looking footage. These are my objective views after installing Quantum Beta 3 today, and only using the GH2 for a week or so, and only two days with minor testing of the anamorphic attachment. I would like to shoot some more experimental footage over the coming days and make further observations instead of uploading any of my poor quality 'out the window' footage I recorded earlier today. As for my skin tones footage, I am submitting that now to @driftwood. Perhap Mr D can share some observations from my skin tones footage, or the matter in general, in due course. Many people to thank on this forum. Thank you.
  • @Oedipax, my attempts to record AVCHD using an anamorphic attachment on the front of a long enough lens, say, over 50mm, has resulted in footage that looks rather soft. I recorded some footage out the window today, terrible dull grey sky, however, I was pleased with how much clearer the MJPEG footage was compared to the AVCHD I had previously recorded. I agree, the footage does have a 'harsher' look, whereas the AVCHD has been soft enough to remind my of my 35mm lens adapter days. It is great that the MJPEG footage is recorded without the need to transform the height (default value down from 100 to 56), as I do with the 1080p24 24H AVCHD footage. I will later try and find a few very short snippets and upload them to Vimeo or Youtube as comparison. I just now finished recording some potential 'skin tones' submissions, I want to look through that footage now. I will revert, as soon as practicable. Thank you.
  • @WhiteRabbit, thanks for that report. Was the VGA mode what you would call superior to AVCHD for anamorphics? Or MJPEG?

    I've always thought MJPEG looked harsh/nasty/digital versus AVCHD, but I'll have to give it another shot. Of course 30fps still pretty much kills it for me, but for certain things I might be okay with conforming to 24.
  • @driftwood, Quantum Beta 3 MJPEG HD and VGA settings for this anamorphic experimental user are proving far superior to AVCHD 1080p24 24H. Using the correct San Disk 30 MB/s SD card, MJPEG HD was almost totally unstable, only a few records with lots of rapid pan/tilt at the start sustained. MJPEG VGA was fine. Truly amazing quality difference for anamorphic users, imo, yet not sure why such a defference, not sure how the magic under the hood makes it so much better. Any prospect of MJPEG 23.976p, 24p and 25p flavours? Thank you @driftwood, report will be on the way to you soon.
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