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Zacuto 'Revenge of Great Camera Shootout,' featuring GH2
  • 261 Replies sorted by
  • @bwhitz Very well said, and I agree on every point. Same goes for @driftwood.

    The GH2 does not outperform the best cameras in the world. It has its limitations. But what matters is that with a little bit of creatively working around those limitations, you can create an image that to most audiences looks nearly on par with the absolute highest end cameras available (Alexa, F65). This is a unique moment in film history, when anyone with a few thousand dollars and a good story to tell can compete with big budget productions in Hollywood.

  • I totally agree with @bwhitz. Today's world of filmmaking is totally PUNK ROCK all over again - its levelling the playing field if youve got something to say and people wanting to see it. Famous quote from a British punk band in '77 called The Desperate Bicycles, "It was easy, it was cheap, GO AND DO IT!"

    And rather like the Internet was in the early days - when the balloon began to heatup - we are now in the realm of great possibilities in the digital realm of filmmaking.

    Digital cinematography IS within reach of everyone who has a good story to tell and with the explosion of digital cinemas around the world (which I think is over 50% install base now) its a bit easier to get film distribution if you have a good movie to show. The graders rendered every cameras output out to tifs before creating 2k comped files for the theatrical showing. The reason being that a large proportion of the theatres around the world still only support 2k including many of the screening rooms they were showing 'Revenge' in. Also it levelled the playing field.

    In the early part of the last century no sound and poor b/w footage never stopped the masses showing up in droves at the theatre.

    Digital cinematography is DIGITAL cinematography - you can't call it film - all these cameras in this test ARE digital. What is Digital? The fact that the GH2 crew had to use extra lighting just shows you that you can make something look good without hiring in expensive cameras - this shouldn't be scorned - rather applauded. Learn the craft of lighting. Learn the craft of grading. Learn the essentials now with the tools youve got. But essentially, tell us a good story.

  • The more I watch the videos and compare the lighting diagram, B seems like the most logical for the GH2. Simply compare the diagram for who lights the girl in the dark chair talking to the guy in the green shirt.. In the GH2 diagram they have a Kino lighting the back of her head. And there are only a few diagrams that light like this with the GH2 having the most power hitting the back of her head. The C300 is other camera with a similar light. So I am not sure, but that would be my guess. The practical light in the foreground also has poor-er dynamic range than some of the other more expensive cameras. I love the speculation tho.

    I originally thought/wanted the GH2 to be H, but there is no such light on that girl's head and the range is quite impressive. But if it turns out to be I would be impressed. Either way great test. F and H to me are my favorite.

  • @JRD

    There's a bit of contradiction here, as always in the movie business. It's no secret that "powerful cinematography and storytelling" typically requires a lot of money, quite apart from the choice of camera, and anyone with a lot of money would be nuts to use any of the cheaper cameras featured in the test.

    Powerful cinematography does not require allot of money... not any more. It's all about your personal talent and eye now. That's the point of this test. But I do agree, some stories, on the whole, do take allot of money. But if you're indie, why would you be writing (or pick) a script like this?

    If you're shooting a Hollywood feature, yea, you'd probably just shoot Alexa or something just for the sake of reliability. But that's not the point of these cheaper small cameras. The point is, they're paving way for entirely new methods of productions and work-flows. I like to do all my cinematography myself (wouldn't have it any other way) while directing. This is difficult with the bigger cinema cameras, and nearly impossible with film. BUT... When I throw my GH2 on a little glidcam 1000, it's like it's not even there. It's like having a directors viewfinder that you actually film with. Amazing! And also, with the quicker set-up times, it feels like we're never shooting and always in rehearsal mode... which I believe leads to much more natural performances. I was almost about to pull the trigger on a Scarlet, but realized it would just slow down my workflow and not really offer that much more in perceived image quality. I'd also most likely have to get a dedicated operator, DP, and DIT... lame. Also, since I'm always shooting on my little glidecam I'd have to step up to the 3000 and get a vest/arm... but then I wouldn't be able to move as fast and have to get another dedicated operator for the vest. Now a little scene that looked like it cost $20k, would actually cost, well... $20k. I'm starting to see why everyone hates DSLRs and small cameras... they threaten ALLOT of jobs.

    But, if you're looking to do things differently, there are HUGE advantages to having viewfinder sized cameras that take nearly hollywood quality 2k video. Find them, and use them to your advantage. Don't try to make your movies "the hollywood way". Because without millions of dollars, you're going to fail. They designed the system to work that way... this is not a secret. :) To hell with it and "professionalism". Make your own system! Having an entire industry abiding to just one filmmaking production model is stupid... and just plain bad for innovation and experimentation.

  • Just for fun, I'll say that I'd be more than happy to shoot with any of: H, F, C, E, A, or B.

    In the end, a camera is like a hand grenade: close enough is good enough.

  • @thepalalias I agree with this totally D and then G were the two worst images in my books. I would be surprised if the GH2 was one of those, they both had edge artifacts and aliasing that looked like a lower resolution pushed up to 1080P. I personally have never seen an image like this come out of the GH2...I would have sold mine by now if this was the case. I did agree with Krostadt tho that B was a pretty digital looking image, the edge detail of the men in it did not look that good against the windows light, but apart from that it was quite clean. Cheers

  • @itimjim Thanks for giving individual scores for each - I haven't seen anyone do that in the thread yet. :) I'm most curious about your scores for D, B and G. Would you mind elaborating more?

  • Well, I thought G had the worst overall look. Although it was just a very quick first pass and scribbled on a notepad.

    I marked out of a VERY subjective 10. Marks were put down for either softness, lack of detail/detail smearing, video look (edge sharpness, micro contrast, overall look). I think it was difficult to mark for for DR and noise as they were all pretty even in that respect, although I think some detail was smeared due to this. All highly subjective.

    I aslo didn't try to identify a single camera at all.

    8/10: A 7/10: C, F 6/10: E, H 5/10: D, B 4/10: I 3/10: G

    My 2p's worth anyway. Nice little test.

  • @kronstadt @shian I am curious as to what you liked about G? I am doing this just as blind as everyone else (turned down 3 offers to find out so far :) but there several issues with the image quality in G and I would be curious as to what is offsetting them for you.

    • Muddiness in some of the shadows.
    • Second lowest resolution (next to D) in the fine detail patterns in the zebra garment, the latticework in the upper left and the tile pattern at the bottom.

    D and G are two of the only ones that produce image artifacts that I simply have not been able to create on a Driftwood setting with a GH2. If somebody managed to get that low a resolution out of Quantum 9b with that lens, then I am genuinely impressed. It would be like finding out the secret to hacking a GH2 to make it look worse than the Stock settings without applying new settings. :)

  • I didn't have a lot of time to spend watching it carefully, but what struck me is that, while all of them were subtly different, all of them looked pretty good. And the bottom line, is, if you know what you're doing, and can fit the scene into the cam's DR, you can make almost any camera look good.

    I'll post my picks when i have time to watch more closely. But just blowing through it I liked G and A the most, if i remember correctly.

  • Congrats on your patch making the test Nick! I'm a long time lurker here but just wanted to say, I make my living using a GH2, and your work (And VK's as well of course) has made my job much more enjoyable and worthwhile. Thanks for working so hard to come up with these amazing hacks! Loving the shootout, wish I could see it in a theatre

  • @kronstadt interesting... we're chuckling here at Driftwood Mansions! Your last point is great.

  • the point of this shootout, I think, is to deliver a simple message: the technology is already here and at almost accessible prices, the question is, have you got the talent to deliver powerful cinematography and storytelling.

    There's a bit of contradiction here, as always in the movie business. It's no secret that "powerful cinematography and storytelling" typically requires a lot of money, quite apart from the choice of camera, and anyone with a lot of money would be nuts to use any of the cheaper cameras featured in the test.

    In the end, very low-cost cameras are used on very low-cost productions, with all the limitations of low and no-cost productions apparent. A situation where the filmmaker has everything (lighting, locations, performance, production design, etc.) but has to use a consumer camera, or wants to use one, is difficult to imagine. Possible maybe, in unusual professional circumstances or when it's part of a marketing effort (for the novelty, of shooting on consumer gear), but rare.

  • I can't believe so many people liked camera B. It just screams "Hey, I'm Digital - I show Life as plastic", as do most other Canons. I watched the footages in Part1 over and over again and kept telling myself: "Forget about definition and resolution and dynamic range and all that technical jargon. Instead, focus on Which footages FEEL good?", "Which one feels cinematic?" My final results were: G, F, C, I, A (not necessarily in that order). I think G was the GH2. E was okey as well. D was definitely the iPhone (no follow-focusing capabilities). While putting GH2 and even iPhone next to such big guys as Alexa, Epic, C300, F65 etc is very empowering and encouraging, the point of this shootout, I think, is to deliver a simple message: the technology is already here and at almost accessible prices, the question is, have you got the talent to deliver powerful cinematography and storytelling.

  • when results will be available? which is which!

  • When does the Blu-Ray come out?

  • Camera A struggled with the detail on the girls black dress...basically it was all blacked out, and elsewhere too

    Camera B was nice and clean, maybe it looked a tad digital, but it was nice and sharp.

    Camera C was also good, picked up the tonal differences a little better than B ...but may have been not as clean in the final close up as B.

    Camera D would have to be the iphone maybe, it just looked kinda lo res somehow and had no controlled DOF on the closeups (the embedded lit panel on the rear left was still clean...sort of).

    Camera E also struggled with tonal detail on the models dress and elsewhere, but it was still a nice image, although the silhouettes were a little digital looking.

    Camera F Nice...again tho the stripes on the black dress were less apparent, but the overall image was very nice.

    G was kinda funky too, I would rate that as the 2nd worst...looked a bit below par really...not as bad as D tho.

    Camera H The best...beautiful detail and captured light nicely everywhere.

    Camera I was quite nice too

    Keen to hear the results actually.

  • @driftwood

    Half the planet already knows who the secret director is. Everyone's already told their friends. lol

    And F, H, and E for me, with C a distant last. Everything else is kinda ugly.

  • I think B is the gh? Anyway looking at the PDF I see they shot the gh at iso 320, I wonder why they rated it at 320 instead of 160 or 200?

  • I didn't read a thing here until I saw the shootout for myself, so I can say i honestly had no idea which camera was which, and I wasn't trying to figure it out! I wasn't trying to find the gh2 amidst all the other cameras so I could just praise it for holding up, and you shouldn't either! just pick what looks best. :)

    Anyway, my top 3 (in order) were B, F, and H.

    everything else looked the same except for the one that was obviously the iphone, though i dont remember which one that was specifically.

  • Yeah, after looking at the footage on a 52" Plasma, it's much more apparent that B is actually the GH2. The motion artifact was nothing more than the way vimeo was rendering the footage on my monitor this afternoon, when I guessed the GH2 was the H footage. F is definitely the Alexa, H the F65 and I think C was the Canon C300. Favorites were F, H and B.

  • @driftwood You are right - the FOV said the exact opposite about H. H is one of the widest and I was writing quickly. :)

    Here are some of my thoughts on first part of the opening, before the door opens when the camera is still at a high angle.

    • D and G shot (or were graded to deliver) a visibly much lower resolution than the other cameras. This can be seen in the zebra pattern on the woman in yellow's top, as well as in the tile pattern near the bottom. F had a lot more resolution than D and G but still seemed like it might have less than the others. B did fine in most areas but does more poorly than F in the detail work near the upper left corner of the frame. NOTE: D and G also did poorly in the upper left corner.

    • When it comes to the yellow contents of the vase with flowers, B and E look almost as if they had additional sharpening applied or something compared to the others. Not entirely sure what caused the look, but the contours are more sharply defined - which could either be good or bad depending on the context.

    • A, F, I, H and G have a noticeably redder tinge to the right curtain than B, F, C, D.

    And thoughts on the section when the guest first opens the door:

    • D and G show much lower resolution on the leaves outside as well, as compared to the other cameras. The consistency of this issue throughout the shot leads me to believe that it is not just a question of approach, but an actual reflection of the camera sensor resolution.
  • F and H are the standout performers to me, I think. I wish H were the GH2, but I think it's the F65. I think F is the Alexa. I think E is the GH2 - the tonality and noise profile matches it.

    I agree about D being the iPhone and G being the 7D. Those are the only two cameras that put out an unacceptable image, in my opinion. All of the rest are fantastic, and I had a really hard time ranking them without pixel-peeping.

  • Nice little show.. My ancient macbook leveled the field even more to the point where only the iphone was discernible (drastically lower resolution). Every shot was choppy, so no sense of motion whatsoever. I even had a hard time saying which I preferred as they where so much alike.. I recall one of the shots having very annoying light glare in the actors faces and wether that was a makeup issue or lighting; impossible to tell. On this computer, that is.

    One thing which I thought about; the limited amount of time for this might have made it more difficult for cameras where the image isn't nice "out of the box", in other words footage that is meant to be processed a lot further. When I say limited amount of time, I mean – 1.5hrs for lighting and another 1.5hrs for coloring can be plenty, however – (and this part is unclear) - if you do not know the set up in advance and have no clear objective with the particular setup (other than to render it nicely) it becomes such a technical shoot. And this could be seen from all DoPs wish to retain the window imagery. Adjust accordingly. Now, take the Alexa for instance, it's image straight out of the box is really pleasing to the eye, bending it in post is a joy. I haven't tried the f65 to know if that is similar - but the gh2 does generally look very good "out of the box".

    My theory from all of this is that, cameras aimed for heavy post work (not saying this cannot be done with alexa, f65) may have suffered a bit in this test; maybe more work had to be done just to get them to look like the actual scene.

  • Aah driftwood, always the good guy : ). I guess I shall wait in agony while you bask in this knowledge.