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Driftwood Quantum X Settings, Series 4: Cluster v2, Mysteron, Sedna, Orion...etc...
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  • @From_Paris : Désolé à cause d'un bug Vimeo je ne peux pas répondre à ton message (pour le moment) ++

  • @itimjim are you sure about this? so how come when i use multicamera window in premiere pro mts plays smooth when ProRes(HQ) don't? I have a fast computer and graphic card

  • @ Swiss_Boy Je suis d'accord avec toi. Converting 24p to 25p is not so simple to deal with. It may be a solution for short format or no audio sync shot.

    Maybe we must found "a Pal" Nick Driftwood".

    Google Trad give me "Bois flotté" for Driftwood Y'a t il un Nico BoisFlotté sur le forum??? ;-) Herbycamer

  • guys there are topics for those conversation.

  • @mozes What is the resulting file's purpose? "on-line" doesn't mean online, does it. Then 25mbs might be a bit much. Otherwise 25 might be a bit of a waste of time before, filming, transcoding and editing in higher bitrates. (Sorry to enlarge that OT but it seems a problem related to the high bitrate settings here.)

    Yep, sorry, @liquidify , it was just some open question what to do with those hight quality pictures that touch the edges of 4:2:0 on all sides.

  • @Swiss_Boy in premier pro, or any other NLE, you can change the clip's framerate easily. In premiere, mark all your clips, right click, and, if I remember well, modify, or something similar you have the option to change the framerate to the desired one. No render time, no quality loss..

  • @Braamokiev That was excellent man!

  • @7pc thats the problem.
    Every online site does a re-compress, so i was thinking it better can be real good what i upload.
    In the mainconcept i can set the number off i, p and b frames, if that is the same as the gh2 codec, then i have max result.
    And with that result the sites do there re-compress, ...
    sure i can upload the orginal mts file, and thats a whole minut the off video.
    vimeo is loaded with all those short test examples.... ;-)

    ps, that 25mb is a max, overall is lower.......... +/-10 a 12mb/s

  • @Tobsen Thank you. Yes.

    @Swiss_Boy The method of conversion you describe is the most primitive and least effective. Research it. I'd need to write an essay on it to respond properly -- there are different methods for different objectives.

    @itimjim "5DtoRGB" is the longest running April Fools joke in this community. Perhaps it works for the old Final Cut, but for Premiere you can accomplish EVERYTHING it does in about two seconds on the native clips. The performance issue suggested only relates to ancient computers. Anything modern, and certainly anything with a certified NVIDIA card will be indistinguishable from old fashioned Prores. There is absolutely no up-sampling of anything with "5DtoRGB." Anything you stick in Premiere Pro is being corrected in 12 bit 4:4:4.

    @YOSS This is exactly the correct way to handle clips without audio. If you've got a voiceover or whatever -- this is what you'd do -- and it takes about 2 seconds.

  • Hey @onionbrain fair enough, everyone has their opinions on it, and this is probably not the best place to discuss it. I have better results with it personally, from grading, keying, a bit of performance and a bit of stability - on a circa 2010 i5 with 16GB.

    Bit harsh saying it's an April Fools joke though, like we've all had the wool pulled over our eyes, regardless of your opinion on it.

  • @mozes

    I haven't used MainConcept in years -- everything I do is direct export from Premiere Pro CS5.5.

    But -- your first screengrab of settings raises a number of flags. First, you're encoding out to mpeg-2 -- and half of the magic of your hacked GH2 is mpeg-4 -- there's a HUGE difference between the two.

    Next, assuming you've filmed in 25p on the GH2 -- you've not actually filmed in 25p -- you've filmed in 50i, and the progressive frames aren't flagged -- and that means MainConcept can't extract progressive frames from your interlaced stream.

    These two issues alone create a chain of other problems.

    So -- again -- I haven't used MainConcept in years and perhaps you know that you're doing everything properly -- but -- those are the flags that were raised when I looked at your first screen.

  • @itimjim

    I don't mean to be harsh -- but I am being honest. Everything, and I do mean 'everything' that program does can be done in seconds with the RGB Corrector in Premiere Pro. Use the scopes and you'll see exactly what I'm conveying is correct.

  • No problem @onionbrain it's something I'll have a good look into it when I have the time. I trust your opinion, so thanks for the honesty.

  • @onionbrain "There is absolutely no up-sampling of anything with "5DtoRGB." Anything you stick in Premiere Pro is being corrected in 12 bit 4:4:4."

    Actually 5DtoRGB does "reconstruct" some of the chroma information when converting. It's really the only true RGB conversion processes... which is why it takes so long. Premier is great, and won't further degrade the image, but it's not doing any re-chroma sampling or anything.

  • Here's a test that shows the difference in image detail with sharpening cranked in post. This test shows how poorly the stock firmware can repesent finer detail (larger macroblocks). This also shows that Mysteron (original not burst) is close to Sedna A AQ1, but falls just a tad short in detail.

    The test was done in controlled indoor lighting 5K (color temp)

    24H

    ISO 160

    5K WB set in camera

    Smooth (all -2 settings)

    160 SS

    2 Stops Under exposed

    14-140MM Lens @ 33MM

    Fucked up the framing for stock, but it's close.

    Stock GH2 v1.0 (never hacked) (17Mbps)

    Mysteron (Standard) (117Mbps)

    Sedna A AQ1 (143Mbps)

    Stock Firmware.png
    1920 x 1080 - 4M
    Mysteron.png
    1920 x 1080 - 5M
    Sedna A AQ1.png
    1920 x 1080 - 5M
  • @onionbrain yhea i now, but the results are better then expected.
    If you render to blueray, and not DVD or Svcd!!
    I film in 720p 50fps, and most off the time i upscale it to 1080, it looks then still better then HBR.

    Bitrate-modus : Variabel Bitrate : 15,4 Mbps Maximale bitrate : 15,8 Mbps Breedte : 1 920 pixels Hoogte : 1 080 pixels Beeldverhouding : 16:9 Framerate : 25,000 fps ColorSpace : YUV ChromaSubsampling : 4:2:2 BitDepth/String : 8 bits Scansoort : Progressief
    By the way, i have set it now to the exact same i,p and b frames as the way the gh2 encoded it.
    To my feeling, is mp4 a little darker when its rendered and online on a video website.
    But i have to set the ChromaSubsampling correct, its wrong now i just see, just over looked i think...

  • @bwhitz

    Respectfully, you're either reading their marketing materials or hopeful bloggers. It's entirely possible "5DtoRGB" did something useful for the old Final Cut -- I haven't touched the old FCP in over five years and I don't know.

    For Premiere -- the absolute kindest characterization I can come up with is "hoax." Re-assigning values is different from up-sampling -- and it's not up-sampling. Again, everything it does can be done in seconds with the RGB Color Corrector in Premiere. Furthermore, almost any transcoding process has some element of destructiveness to it -- and this is especially cruel when you're dealing with footage as nice as you're getting with a Driftwood patch from the GH2. Additionally, the true benefit that most unsuspecting users are reporting relates to dynamic range -- and that can also be accomplished in two seconds or less with a levels adjustment.

    For people who love "5DtoRGB" -- great -- do your thing. But for those who are truly looking for a meaningful workflow -- I'm telling you -- it's a hoax. Spend your money on something useful like Neat Video and learn how magnificent this Driftwood footage is when you do a curves/levels adjustment or use the RGB Color Corrector in Premiere (it's almost like a reversed Technicolor Cinestyle). Yes, you can pull two or more stops of usable detail out of midtones and shadows.

    @mozes I've had some outstanding results in the past up-scaling 720/60p to 1080 in Premiere. I expected it to be awful or mediocre at best -- and it was outstanding.

    I'm just troubled by the mpeg-2 thing -- I'm at the point where I can simply look at a video and tell the difference between mpeg-2 and mpeg-4.

  • @onionbrain I agree - with Premiere there is no reason to use 5DtoRGB. I could not see any difference between the raw mts files and the converted ProRes444 in AE. There's no discernable difference, and they grade equally well. BUT if you are not using Premiere. The 5DtoRGB conversions are stellar! 422HQ is flatter than 4444, but the 4444 is sharper and has better detail. BOTH are superior to transcodes done with ANY version of FCP, including X.

  • I agree with @onionbrain, I have used 5DtoRGB more than a fair bit, I used it because I was looking for a quick alternative to getting my footage into Nuke (without going through my normal approach of taking a sequence of TIFF files out of Premiere). It definitely is not upsampling in anything approaching a useful way. In fact I found it to be a destructive process with very high bitrate footage. Once I had built a script in Nuke and then taken in a TIFF sequence to replace the mov file I got from 5DtoRGB the difference in quality was more than noticeable (dramatic in some cases, and not in a good way). I tried it many, many times, it would have been very useful to me. Albeit I only tried with with the DNxHD codecs, no point me trying Prores as I'm on a PC but I can't imagine it would be that (or any) different.

    I think the easiest way to see what damage 5DtoRGB can do is to see what effect it has on any shot with any kind of posterisation (banding), it will always look much worse coming out of 5DtoRGB than the native file (hence my claim that its not upsampling in any useful way). I found that an ffmpeg script that just rewrapped the footage in a quicktime DNxHD YUV format was a lot less destructive. Still, I'm back to TIFF exports, framecycler, big caches, and DJView and whatever I shoot maintains its quality. Also as onionbrain says, everything it does you can do in your NLE anyhow (if you'ld ever need to start with a 1.8 gamma, god knows why you would want to convert to that anyway).

  • @proaudio Thx for the comparison, you test the 24H...?

  • @proaudio4 thanks for that comparison. I'm still using old Ptools and Quantum 9b. Are there any comparisons with the older settings like 9b. I've noticed a drop in data rate on the newer patches, are they really better in any way other than spanning on more cards?

  • Where is Vitaly? Did he need a time out after the shock of "The Big Thing"? Hey Vitaly are you there?

  • @onionbrain @shian

    So, with FCPX it's better to use 5DtoRGB?

    I recently read that it was not necessary to use with 5DtoRGB FCPX!

  • @shian,

    Some people are speaking highly of the grading capabilities with Sedna. You may want to give it a whirl with your colorGHear.

    I'm an amateur when it comes to grading (must remember to re-watch some of your excellent tuts on the subject), but from my limited testing on a very mediocre system I'm inclined to agree.

    I know you're busy with work, but keep the tuts coming!

    All the best Sam

  • @onionbrain even when selected the mpeg2, when setting the settings to high, it will render to a .m2t file.
    But i am with you, even i didn't like mpeg2, thats why i am surprised with the results, when the codec is set correct.
    Attached a screenshot from vlc player with the orginal mts file, and the m2t file
    I render in sony vegas...

    M2T file info
    Bitrate-modus : Variabel
    Bitrate : 15,5 Mbps
    Maximale bitrate : 15,8 Mbps
    Breedte : 1 280 pixels
    Hoogte : 720 pixels
    Beeldverhouding : 16:9
    Framerate : 50,000 fps
    ColorSpace : YUV
    ChromaSubsampling : 4:2:0
    BitDepth/String : 8 bits
    Scansoort : Progressief



    MTS file info
    Bitrate-modus : Variabel
    Bitrate : 58,9 Mbps
    Maximale bitrate : 94,2 Mbps
    Breedte : 1 280 pixels
    Hoogte : 720 pixels
    Beeldverhouding : 16:9
    Framerate : 50,000 fps
    ColorSpace : YUV
    ChromaSubsampling : 4:2:0
    BitDepth/String : 8 bits
    Scansoort : Progressief

    You can see the bitrate is way lower then the mts file, but the quality is practicly the same.
    Maby @driftwood can say something about this?

    m2t-00001.png
    1280 x 720 - 2M
    mts-00001.png
    1280 x 720 - 2M
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