GH2 driftwood hack in shootout with Canon C300

danyyyel

For me it is not a feeling what is good or not. It is just knowing at least to a certain extend how each camera perform because I have no bias to any brand. I am a Nikon photographer, who bought a 7d because of the video and now a gh2. The gh2 is the first Panasonic gear that I have. I wanted to film and before the d7000, Nikon had nothing compared to the Canon. Then I saw the advent of the hack gh1 and then the gh2, that I bought. Unfortunately I don't have unlimited funds, or live in a country where I can try all these cameras.

This is why a test like this is very important to me. I had planned and could have stretched financially for an Af100 or an FS100 if they provided some good to substantial quality difference against the gh2. I cannot be sure 100% on Mr X,Y or Z telling me that the gh2 is better or on par to some other camera or the contrary because you have a set of fanboys and hatters that pollute any forums (This comment is not directed at some posters that a really value there judgement, I hope they recognize who they are). Now at least I can have a good idea with my own eyes. Yes, most of us know that it is very good in terms of resolution, but what about the rest. I wrote above in my previous post a simple scenario about the FS100. If it shows to be much better than the gh2 in low light (hypothetical because no one has any clue). Lets say by 3 stop, it could put it back in contention against the gh2 because where one could operate with some simple battery powered led light, the other one would need to use HMI and a grip truck to get the same result. In terms of detail it might loose a little bit, but you could still use an external recorder to get intra base codec at 200 mbit like the ninja and benefit from much better low light (all this is just hypothetical). So these other test will be more revealing about the different cameras and there respective price to performance ratio.

Mimirsan

@rigs
Spot on!
Ive said before it seems like some just want constant validation that their camera is good. Put down other cameras just to make them feel that their camera is better.
Its just shows how insecure a lot of us are.
Anyway all is okay now "PB gives it the stamp of approval" ..........right? ;-)

Mihuel

Sorry guys, but this whole issue can specify only one maxim: "So fucking what?"

rigs

VK is bang on with his view about shoot outs. "All I said is that such things do not deserve your attention if you already have the camera."

Enough of the childish pandering folks- If you need someone esles to validate that your camera is good, or that you could also use his findings as a selling point,or too argue against other makes and models. It really doesn't matter whos or what is better. These things are always a never ending bunch of Bull shit. If you have a GH2 good for you, if you have any camera its just as good as long as you enjoying using it, heck you don't even have to be an expert or have the best gear out there to make something good. All you need is to believe in what you can do with any camera and not what someone else might say about it.

bwhitz

"Why you worry about tone of someones post, or opinions of the Red owners?
It can be what deep inside you are not certain in your current opinions :-)"

Pretty much cause I'm bored and I don't like people talking down on others for such dumb reasons. Nothing else really. Oh well, happy new year, time to go out and drink now...

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@bwhitz

Why you worry about tone of someones post, or opinions of the Red owners?
It can be what deep inside you are not certain in your current opinions :-)

bwhitz

"Expirience with big constly cameras do not make anyone a snob."

True. But it does if you think it somehow automatically invalidates others. Which was the tone I got from the post.

I've been on Red shoots where they're constantly basing "DSLRs toys" when their end product looks like garbage and could have easily been out-done by a film student with a T2i in 1/4 the time and 1/20th the budget.

If he would have said something like "a number of whom have never produced a serious FILM and don't understand anything beyond "give me everything for as cheap as possible." Then that would have been fine. It just sounded like he was being condescending towards those who have simply not worked with expensive cameras, regardless of any other factors.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

@bwhitz

>Your post seem to place you on the other end of spectrum with the elitist Red camera snobs.

I think his post has a point.
Expirience with big constly cameras do not make anyone a snob.

bwhitz

"That blog is one of the few beacons of DSLRism that validates an entire cult of DSLR shooters, a number of whom will never touch a serious camera and don't understand anything beyond "give me everything for as cheap as possible.""

Serious cameras? Who are you trying to kid? Your post seem to place you on the other end of spectrum with the elitist Red camera snobs.

kholi

Was just going off of posts yo umade, but apparently I misinterpreted them. My bad.

Vitaliy_Kiselev

>believe this is also why VK does not want P.Bloom discussions or even these silly shootouts talked about here

Try not to interpret my words your way, ok? I never aid anything like it.
All I said is that such things do not deserve your attention if you already have the camera.
And people can talk about any shootouts on our forum, be it PB or anyone else.
I can not like particular things, but it doesn not matter, really.

kholi

@brianluce said: The test is lame anyhow, "Oh look at this GH2, looks pretty good! Okay how about the Sony, hey that looks good too! Now I'll look at the Nikon, not bad! I like it!"

re: That's what happens when you're trying to avoid calling a winner so that any faction of brand loyalists won't get mad at you and begin to curse your blog.

People want to feel like they made the right choice in purchasing something. That blog is one of the few beacons of DSLRism that validates an entire cult of DSLR shooters, a number of whom will never touch a serious camera and don't understand anything beyond "give me everything for as cheap as possible."

He's doing the right thing if you want to keep traffic up.

Incidentally, I believe this is also why VK does not want P.Bloom discussions or even these silly shootouts talked about here but I could be wrong.

driftwood

Its all about divide & rule. Consumer, prosumer, professional. It'll take a brave corporate to make an even playing field by bringing prices down. The one that does will win. I guess theyre all waiting for an 'Apple' to force them to 'change'. But it will happen one day. In 5 years time we will laugh at all this... And at the losers.

bwhitz

"The GH2 is an outlier in my opinion, that's why I don't think some of the expectations expressed here with regard to sub $5,000 1080p 4:2:2 cameras are reasonable."

Doesn't matter if it's reasonable or not. These are the only specs that are going to get me to open my wallet. I'm not going to shell out $5000 for a so-called "pro camera" that is only offering marginal improvements, if that.

Panasonic is not underselling the GH2 or anything like that... 200mb/s video is just possible with $700 hardware now. Regardless of color space... 200mb/s is 200mb/s. There's absolutely nothing that is special about the "data" that makes up 4:2:2 video... it's just friggen data. There's just no reason at all why we don't have a 4:2:2 60fps option for under $5000... besides the companies love product tiering... and it seems like people also love spending $20,000 for $2 in hardware upgrades, because they're "pro features" ment for "pros". You think the DSLRs would have woken people up to how much they are being taken for a ride by the "pro gear stigma"... but it just seems like they're getting worse every year.

driftwood

The GH2 has its own unique 'look', enjoy it's benefits, work with it's limitations, be creative with it, its not so bad... is it now? :-)

brianluce

I don't know about collective illusions, but I think a shooter should be able to look at the image his camera makes and decide if it's usable or not. For example, for my purposes, I couldn't live with my Canon 7d. The moire and aliasing ruined about 15% of my shots and I couldn't always detect it until I got the footage ingested in the computer. Some people aren't stressed out by Canon moire and aliasing -- but I was. For me it's a shot killer. Repeat, for me, some people love the 7d. I didn't need a side by side with an HVX200 to tell me the 7d wasn't satisfactory (for me), all I had to do was look at it. Same with the GH2, I can look at the image it makes and understand it's not the limiting factor in my production chain, that'd be me and what I bring to the table.
Bloom makes one point that resonated with me, that the GH2 presents an absurd value relative to the market -- that it can legitimately shoot next to an F3 is remarkable considering the price point. The GH2 is an outlier in my opinion, that's why I don't think some of the expectations expressed here with regard to sub $5,000 1080p 4:2:2 cameras are reasonable. Btw, did you notice that not only were the clouds and light also shifting throughout the shoot but that the big boat moved? LOL, I was using that boat to assess the cams and then you see these guys climbing down the ladder and then boat leaves. Was that scripted?

danyyyel

Because it could be much better... I say it could because it is through these comparison that we can see if it is or not. We will never know if there is no test. We could just be a bunch of guy in a sort of collective illusion that the hack gh2 is that good, that it could compete against much higher priced camera. But these test give credence to what we have observe.

lets say in the first test the FS100 was as sharp as the gh2, in the second it completely destroys it in low light and much better skin-tone, dynamic range much less banding. It might make think twice compared to a gh2. A more practical example, lets say that the FS100 shows much better low light. Shooting at 6400 is as if shooting with the gh2 at 400/800. In the short run it could become a much more viable and less costly camera than the gh2 because you could use 3/4 times less light for the same quality. Where one you would need to have generators and even a truck, with the other camera you could go with led light and batteries. This is a very practical example where this test could tell you if one might be better than the other or vis versa.

I have a hacked gh2 but the world does not ends here. It has its problems that the hack won't change. Until I get 10 bit and something like 4.2.2 and better DR, I will still be on the look out. For now the gh2 is showing that it is a super camera at any price point, in case of the fs100 it (gh2) has already shown that it has won the first round in resolution.

brianluce

I own a pair of GH2's. Why do I care what the FS100 can do? I don't own it. If my GH2's aren't good enough, then I should get something else.
The test is lame anyhow, "Oh look at this GH2, looks pretty good! Okay how about the Sony, hey that looks good too! Now I'll look at the Nikon, not bad! I like it!"

Aria

I found it useful to see the comparison regardless of the flaws in the testing. IMO the more info the better for me to make my decisions. There can never be a single defacto test. As soon as you change one variable things are bound to effect cameras differently. It's not about best/worst as much as it is knowing what you can use each tool for. Cameras are tools and as such it's great to know the limits of each camera system.

I have a T2i and a Gh13 and various Video cameras from pro to consumer camcorders. Each of them fill a different role and I like being able to use each as needed. The GH2 reaches far above it's weight class and it's shocking how far it can go. Between posts on the forums, test reviews, videos and shootouts like Zacuto and P Bloom i've learned a lot in a very short time.

bwhitz

@danyyyel "But beyond all this, it shows to the world and the manufacturers how good a $ 700 camera hardware can be, so things like the Af-100 can rest in peace. It leverage a lot the playing fields, no more those crap talk about 10 bit, high resolution, high bitrate codec would need $ 10 000 hardware."

+1

This is why I'm into comparisons to other cameras. It's not because "I gotz a GH2 and I thinkz it'z th3 best3st" It's because I'm trying to spread awareness of how good and affordable modern hardware can be when left un-crippled. We know now (thanks to the incredible talents of people here) that 100mb/s+ Intra video is now possible on $700 hardware... so all the Panasonic BS of "it would cost $10,000 extra for that" is confirmed and complete bull shit of the highest degree.

The more people buy into the mindset and justify cameras like the C300 being $20,000... the more it's going to hurt everyone and keep stagnating the market/industry. The C300 is great for what it is, but it's an OBVIOUS and dirty upsell. Anyone (even if you're a wealth production company) who buys into the C300 is being taken for a serious ride. Now, on top of that, we have the asshole "film-hipsters" that complain about absolutely irrelevant details, like the world-famous moronic rolling shutter scapegoat, that are basically selling the camera for Canon on their blogs and digging everyone into a deeper whole.

The more people are aware about the market... the more companies will have to compete and democratize the tech. The more this happens... the more smaller production companies and individuals will be able to compete with Hollywood and larger budget productions. The more this happens... the better the products of everyone will become, ticket prices will be lowered, more risks will be taken (not just shitty reboots year after year), and more options will be available. Consumers and artists will be the winners here. The "professionalism " will hopefully fade away and movies will finally just be made by "teams" of passionate people instead of "companies". The industry will be destroyed and films will finally become an art form... where all the profits will go back to the artists, and not the "door holding" middlemen. Competition = progress.

Then there's just the fact that good ideas are few and far between... and in the meantime, I like to geek out. :)

DrDave

I just preordered a GH3!
Ooops, no, my mistake, I moused over a snowflake and I was momentarily in a dream world with perfect highlights and no grain.

oscillian

I just bought my second GH2!

Mihuel

@magnifico
You do not generalize because you reach a dead end. Remember to Akira Kurosawa, Toshiro Mifune, Sergei Eisenstein

mozes

I don't no, i always have the feeling they are 10 years ahead.
what they bring to the market is for them already "old".
Its not smart to bring what you got to the market.
this way they can still earn money on a properly already old hardware.

its just .... well ..... people like Vitaliy, and the patch-makers who shows the real power hidden in the hardware.
its feels like a kind off a still protest ... ;-)

PixCanFly

I managed to sell 10 GH2 with decent profit after linking PB's 1st shootout in my sales thread. Hope the 2nd skin tone shootout will not result in too many buyers remorse.

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