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'Apocalypse Now' Experimental Series 1 Thread - BOOM, Intravenus - cbrandin/driftwood AN Soft/Cinema
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  • @driftwood - "Perhaps youre being late to the ball and getting your arse in gear is hurting and your arrogance has led you to hijack the thread?"

    Alright, since you insist on hijacking the thread into a personal dispute, let's talk about arrogance. You seem to assume that since Chris approached you with an idea that you put some work into, you now own both it and this thread, and resent my participation. If that's the case, I'd suggest you start your own blog, like EOSHD, and ban me from it.

    With respect to Chris, he vetted the 3x3 matrix idea with me as well, and disclosed the details back in July. That's why I was already familiar with it, and was able to analyze this patch in technical detail and distinguish his work from yours. I actually appreciated the fact that you followed through with it, and was interested to see how well it would work in practice. But when you suddenly released the Sharp2 matrix, I had to reverse-engineer the different matrices just to figure out which variant I should be testing.

    Now, as for your gratuitous insults. Your paranoid accusation that my independent technical review of Apocalypse Now was some kind of "moment of glory" for me is simply pathetic. Anyone who's read through my patch threads would know that I've created plenty of my own opportunities to claim as much glory as I could want. Sorry, but this isn't about you or any competitive thing at all. I'm interested only in how well Chris' matrix works, and you happened to provide a convenient way to test it out.

    And on the topic of mutha'fuckin' testing, I have a bug report. The Driftwood Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now' - 6 GOP Nebula '444 Soft' variant froze up twice in a row while I was shooting some daffodils, tripod-mounted in 720p60 SH mode, after about 7 seconds. Manual-exposure movie mode with a manual focus lens, ISO 400, f5.6, 1/60 sec, 30MB/sec Class 10 Sandisk Extreme. You might want to take another look at that.

  • I think both driftwood and lpowell have been doing an outstanding job providing us with excellent settings. Especially Nick has an almost restless hunger for finding new and better settings and provided us with some great stuff. While flow motion 2 is a setting i have always at least as a backup on a sd-card when i go outside for a shoot, because i know what i does for me.

    @bkmwcd: Thank you for your gop3 setting, its excellent. I also really like your patience and buddhalike attitude towards criticism or suggestions for improvements, no matter if they are constructive or not.

    @driftwood: please dont feel discouraged, i am really looking forward to the announced AN settings. Cant wait to test intravenus and cinemasmooth. But of course, also take your well earned holidays!!

  • @driftwood: Please don't let LPowell highjack your unique thread, maybe he is just jealous of your outstanding, groundbreaking performance here.

    I bought the GH2, tested all the settings, tested LPowells "Flowmo", tested bkmcwd settings, tested all your settings. The only thing i have to say is: From my point of view "Drewnet 444" and "Nebula 444" are the best ever rockstable settings you can get for the GH2 !!! It's just unbelievible what this little consumer camera can serve using your settings !

    Keep on going your "mutha'fuckin" hard work - we all luv it !!!

  • I did some serious testing today, and eaven i still love CM night, the color space is defenetly improved. Just waiting intra settings. Let others argue what is what, and how said something. I trust my own eyes. Thanks sir Driftwood and others.

  • Thank you all involved in Cluster development. For a change there is clutter 7 gop6 soft. I should not say that but Sorry for colors- I found out that I have a big problem with calibrating my U2410 so CC its done intuitive, Hope its acceptable and it looks similar on your screen to mine.

    Feel free to let me know if its disaster.

  • Rough and ready test while out on a day out yesterday.

    Bit of a test of a new camera setting profile and lens combination, documenting a day trip out to Chatsworth House. Forgot my monopod, so it's shaky city I'm afraid. Combo would work well with a stabiliser, if not a bit heavy.

    No grading at all. This is directly out of camera, edited in PP CS6, 1.5x interpretation, export to h264 HD 1080p/24 profile.

    Camera: Panansonic GH2

    Settings: Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now' - 6 GOP Nebula with cbrandin/driftwood '444 Sharp2' matrix

    Film Profile: Smooth -2,-2,-2,-2

    Lens: Tokina AT-X 280 AF PRO 28-80/2.8

    Filter: Hoya Pro 1 Digital CPL

    Anamorphic: Moller Bolex 16/32/1.5x

  • @bkmcwd

    I would like to try your settings, but I am a little confused.

    Could you please tell me the difference between your "Valkyrie 444 TYPE-ZERO 'Apocalypse Now' with cbrandin 'Original 444 Matrix' " and your "Valkyrie 'Apocalypse Now' with cbrandin '444 Soft Matrix"?

    In which cases should I use one or the other?


  • Couple tests from yesterday, for all the dog lovers out there. ;)

    Valkyrie 444 TYPE-ZERO 'Apocalypse Now' GH2 Hack Test 1

    Valkyrie 444 TYPE-ZERO 'Apocalypse Now' GH2 Hack Test 2

    Definitely download the second one. Lost a ton of detail on Vimeo. First one looks alright.

  • First post on the boards, but I've been following the GH2 hacks for a while now, and thought I'd get stuck in and upload some test footage with the new settings.

    I used the 3GOP Valkyrie Soft setting with two different manual lenses. Interestingly, the Miranda 28mm lens I use for a couple of shots I always find to be soft, but the details look fine to me, even with the soft variant. The colours on the flowers are brilliant I thought. No grading, only tweaked the contrast, so I hope this is useful.

    Great work with these settings! Thanks so much.

  • @otcx Yep...I love CM Night but IMO Apocalypse Drewnet Soft has it beat.

    I had to laugh a little, Lee and Nick are both extremely talented,,,but argue. Ralph, who IMO is equally talented, just watches from the sideline. You reckon that's why his setting is called "Sanity".

    Anyway....Two donations coming today. One for Nick and one for Chris!

  • @itimjim Great to see someone else using that Tokina! I have the old version from Japan and love it. Love the lens flares you got with it.

  • @vicharris yeh, love the Tokinas. Can be a bit difficult to use wide open with blooming, really have to be careful and controlled. But they render very well for their price point. Incredible that the Bolex 16/32/1.5x works on it throughout the range (without filters)....which gives it some epic flares on top of the Tokina flares :)

  • I was a huge fan of reAQuainted and Sedna Q20 and really like the sharp2 Apocalypse. I use old Russian and German lenses mostly and they are getting me close to what i would ultimately like. GOP1 to 3 is better for an overall crispier look in gradations and shadow. I tend to shoot as flat as possible everything to -2 and then adjust in post to get the ultimate look. Probably a low contrast filter on top of all would even be better. Paradoxically the lower contrast reaches the sensor, the more detail gets preserved. For after effects: use (multiple times) the unsharp mask. For FCPX there is a free plugin effect "unsharp mask" that is also very useful to bring back the detail. Get the contrast back with Curves effect in After effects or with Nattress (Graeme Nattress wrote software for RED) Curves, Luma Curves and Chroma Curves in FCPX (the default S-curve already gets nice results). Really worth it. Try it and see how great an image you can get with this workflow.

  • @driftwood, remember this, Driftwood GOP1 AQ1 220M Smooth as Fuck Quality Limiter? It was outstanding, truly outstanding, But that was way back when. Question could the Apocalypse Now settings be incorporated into the old SAF patch. I would like to find out. SAF was incredible in very low light and very miuch shy of noise. I am seeing huge amounts of noise with the AN, yes they are a combination different frames, I,B,P and SAF was just I frames.... If you think there is a possibility say hey if not...say so.

  • Is it busy while I am away for one day?


    "Is the "TYPE-ZERO" Valkyrie matrix patch considered to be the 'sharp' variant?"

    No, it is the version which adopted the first edition of the 444 matrix of Chris and Nick. I am going to make the sharp matrix version of Nick after this. Rather than "Chris's original matrix was soft", by this original matrix, since the balance of the I frame and the B frame is not good for GOP3, I consider that a 444 Soft matrix version is better, IMHO. Then, it is because this setting is a starting point of "Valkyrie" as to why I released TYPE-ZERO.


    Many thanks for understanding my situation poor at English. :-)


    Thanks for testing Valkyrie! :-)

    And all praise is to Chris and Nick!

  • I redid my resolution tests. I may have underestimated the reduction in sharpness with the Soft 444 matrix. It looks more like about a 9-10% reduction. Examining resolution charts is somewhat subjective so I've attached detail captures for you to look at for yourselves. Realize that the detail captures have had levels and gamma adjusted to make things as visible as possible - so don't draw any conclusions about image quality from these.


  • Here's something I threw together yesterday where I live. It's MGMs old backlot #3. Tech info at start of video. It's Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now - DREWnet' 12/15 GOP Sharp2 Seems like there might be a couple glitches in the upload. I have one going up on Vimeo right now to see if it fares any better.

  • @cbrandin It may well be 10% Chris but the images flat look better IMO. Sometimes numbers don't tell the real story.

  • @cbrandin Thanks for posting frame grabs of your matrix resolution tests. I think they clearly illustrate the inherent difficulty of choosing a number that represents the camera's "lines of resolution". In both charts, the individual vertical lines blur into gray in a ragged manner, and exactly where you choose to assign a numerical cutoff is debatable. Beyond that, I'm actually seeing more noticeable aliasing in the Soft 444 matrix, in the form of bright vertical ringing effects around the outer edges of the flute and the zero in the number '10'. This is often evidence of a digital filter with too sharp of a cutoff, which may indicate that the 255 components in the Soft 444 matrix are a little to harsh for optimal results.

    In general, there's really no objective way to measure the resolution of any digital camera, it's a subjective judgment call. At high spatial resolutions, the image sensor's output is contaminated with ultra-fine aliasing artifacts that are literally folded down into the upper resolution range. As a result, the genuine resolution of the sensor is submerged within spurious alias products and there's no way to separate them. With digital cameras, "sharpness" is a marriage of refined technology and aesthetic preference.

  • can someone tell me, really, what advantage do we get from the 2k mjpeg mode? I've been looking all over the Forum.. I mean, resolution is still inferior, isnt it? And the 30fps we are also stuck with, right? what is the point? :)

  • Sure - that's because the gradation rendering is much, much better. Also the way detail is rendered is a little softer and less rectilinear - compensating for the "sharp" video look.

    People complain about the "harsh" video look - well... that's significantly related to detail sharpness. I think it's funny when people "want" maximum sharpness, then turn around and use soft lenses - I don't get it!

  • @vicharris I didn't know any of the backlots still existed. I thought they were all apartments now, or a Safeway and Pizza Hut or whatever. Looks great. Think about an informal mini-doc on what's left. Even if you film without permission -- it's probably worth a million youtube views.

    @cbrandin Regardless of resolution charts -- it's still the best looking footage I've seen from a hacked GH2. The GH2 can afford 10% softening -- and even with that or more it's still substantially sharper than a 5D Mark 3 with the best L glass and half a dozen or so other "pro" camcorders.

  • @lpowell - The criteria I chose was the first instance where the wrong number of lines are shown (8 versus 9). But your right - that decision is ultimately subjective. Part of the reason they look different is because they are not scaled to relative resolution. If the lower res is scaled, it looks more similar. These are JPEG screen grabs, so we have layers of compression artifacts happening. Also, I didn't optimize any other settings and that results in cruder rendering overall with the soft 444 matrix because it needs more bandwidth. I was just trying to determine relative resolution and nothing else.

  • @onionbrain Thanks. They turned them into private communities behind what's now Culver Studios, which used to be MGM. That lake has been home to a bunch of famous old movies which all escape my mind now but I do know the movie RAINTREE was filmed here as well since they named the place after it. Kind of cool they keep a lot of the old stuff, like the lake, pieces of the yellow brick road and I'm pretty sure there's old prob boulders all over the place made of concrete.

    The DR of this stuff really looks great!

  • @cbrandin wrote: "I think it's funny when people "want" maximum sharpness, then turn around and use soft lenses - I don't get it!"

    Pretty dirt simple explanation on that. If you're experienced with lenses -- MFT lenses are rather mediocre on a range of levels. I couldn’t' bash these newest Olympus primes for long enough.

    On the other hand -- combine the excessive sharpness of the GH2 with what's being called "soft" film lenses -- and the result is a winning combination.

    @LPowell Aliasing? Battery drops? You've clearly got some problems. I assume next in line is "it bricked my camera."

    I've had no battery drops, no corrupt files, and have certainly not been plagued by aliasing and/or moire on any of these AN variations.

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