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Official Final Cut X topic, moving to ARM and vlogging
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  • @Nayche I never tried 5DtoRGB, but I'm sure it's fine. Clipwrap does what I need, or usually I just transcode using FCPX directly (and resort to Clipwrap when there is an issue with the AVCHD folder.) As MorphoV mentioned, it's also sometimes useful to retain the metadata.

  • @Nayche The first time I opened FCPX, I hated it. Then, after a few months, I spent a couple of weeks learning it, mostly with tutorials I found on http://fcp.co/ website. Then, when I open 7 again, I feel what many people probably felt going back to linear editing after learning NLE... So I don't open 7 anymore.

    About your next project, you should probably read this: http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/fcp_x_road_young.html

    According to many people, 5DtoRGB has the best transcoding algorithms, but, most of the time, I transcode from FCPX, just for the sake of my workflow, and to keep the shots date metadata. There is something you should know to transcode AVCHD in FCPX, especially if you're planing to grade on Resolve (I don't like FCPX grading tools at all). FCPX automatically rewrap the .mts files and put it into the "Original Media" folder. The problem is that, when you export an XML, it will point to the those files (H.264) instead of the prores transcoded files. To fix this, you can whether modify the XML (I haven't try on 10.0.4 XML though), or replace the H.264 files by the prores, in the Original Files folder (It's better to quit FCP first).

  • @ahbleza Thanks for the info, that's good to know. I have a time sensitive project coming up, and I'm trying to decide if I want to risk doing it in FCP X. I will definitely make the switch long term.

    Do you ever use something like 5DtoRGB with FCP X, or does Clipwrap do the job? Thanks again.

  • @Nayche I've made the switch from FCP7 to FCPX, and find it to be very productive for editing my work, including multi-cam. It took a couple of weeks to be really comfortable, but due to superior media management, metadata handling and robust crash recovery, I'm glad I made the switch.

    Occasionally, FCPX cannot correctly import my AVCHD footage from my GH2 (although it never has a problem with the AVCHD from my AF100), so I need to repeat the import, or better yet, rewrap the MTS files with Clipwrap, and then it's good as gold.

  • A few questions:

    1) Those who have switched from FCP 7 to FCP X, assuming you've watched tutorials, how long before you feel comfortable and efficient using the application? Is it measured in hours, days, or weeks?

    2) For footage shot on the GH2, would you recommend editing in FCP 7 with a 3rd party transcoder, or using FCP X?

    Thanks.

  • Here are some fun videos I'm working on. Part FCP history lesson/part tutorial/part rant. http://vimeo.com/channels/319711

  • For those interested in continuing the conversation about tapeless delivery, I started a new topic:

    http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2958/how-do-you-deliver-content-the-bandwidth-topic.#Item_1

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev Good idea. Considering topic name. Will start a new thread on it soon.

  • @5thwall

    May be you can make separate topoic out of this? As it can grow in something useful, but not about FCP.

  • @John_Farragut @alcomposer @pdlumina Hey guys - glad you all are talking about this. I am dealing with all these issues on a daily basis. In fact, I'm literally dealing with bandwidth issues at this very moment. My current upload bandwidth is 1Mb/s, so about 112k/second max. 1GB takes roughly 3 hrs to upload. A :30 Prores spot is roughly 550MB.

    Here's my take - I'm not a broadcast house (@pdlumina, totally get where you are coming from with the need for tape in that environment), rather I do mostly boutique editorial work, online (whatever that is these days) and color correction for commercial, news, documentaries corporate, etc... Up until last year, I was making tape deliveries for broadcast clients.

    So far this year, I have not made one tape delivery. Mind you, the length of my projects has been between :15 and 10:00. But, still, not-a-one. I just sent a DVCPRO-HD file on a DVD to a local PBS outlet - thank goodness it was 4.2GB! What would I have done if it was 4.8GB? Very few people have Bluray drives.

    What I'm noticing nowadays is that, especially on the agency side, clients are now expecting immediate delivery of ProRes through FTP. What is most frustrating to me, though, is that I am seeing that many clients don't understand the limits of bandwidth.

    For example, two nights ago, we had a mad rush to get a commercial to air. It needed to get to FTP site in NY by 9PM - which I found out during the session in the late afternoon. I was prepping online/cc/downconverts/final deliverables which were getting revised even after approval. However, the production company and the agency didn't factor in bandwidth (which I alerted them to as soon as I found out that the files needed to be uploaded). So, it ended up being a mad dash of sending assistants to my office to grab copies of separate deliverables on thumb drive to take to friends' houses to upload separately. And in the end, we were actually late since one of the uploads failed at the last second and Cyberduck wouldn't let us continue the upload. Not exactly a professional way of dealing with it, but it was our only choice. We were locked in.

    Over the past couple of years, I've noticed that the young assistants moving up the ladder (some of whom are now Junior Producers) are coming from the world of internet distribution. Also, companies that started as internet content providers are now moving into TV content, commercials, movies, etc... It's been interesting (and horrifying) to see how many of these companies and their staff deal with broadcast standards and delivery.

    The one thing I've learned with running a business is that you can rarely change the way business is done (unless you're Steve Jobs). You have to leverage your assets and skills against the way business changes. That's been my biggest challenge over the past 2-3 years. Luckily for me, my skill set is firmly rooted in content that airs for broadcast - and I have a strong understanding of deliverables, QC, internet content requirements, etc... Beyond raw creativity, I think it's this understanding that separates the professionals from the rest. This is the real world of broadcast distribution.

    My final point is this: Our future lies in bandwidth. It doesn't matter what we can provide, it matters what our clients demand. The problem right now is that fast bandwidth is very, very expensive - and not worth the additional hundreds of dollars per month at this moment. When the day comes, however, when we have affordable access to gigabit upload speeds through our wired connection and 100Mb through wireless, then I think we'll be delivering files exclusively. And that will change everything (again!).

  • @pdlumina Isn't that what I said? If you need tape, FCP X isn't it. Apple has left that market of (broadcast) professionals and hopped on another train. So while legacy is a sure thing in broadcast, for a company as Apple legacy means strictly the past.

    This does mean that it is harder for a company to invest in Apple stuff than in Adobe or Avid. Apple always wants to go to the latest thing when it sees fit in order not to miss the boat. Doing this, Apple has alienated many professionals, yes. But this is Apple. They wanted to invest in the broader market, which they see as flourishing in the next decade. Apple wants something for the next 5-10 years. Things change, Apple changes. Yes, it sucks for a lot of people.

    FCP X will probably be used in broadcast, but only by smaller scale production companies, like is used in Leverage. When you have to constantly hand over footage, it becomes more tricky, yes.

  • @John_Farragut When you are a serious broadcasting company, 'legacy' is a normal, every-day thing. Clients from around the country will continue to send you tapes, because they have invested thousands or hundreds of thousands of dollars in good equipment (cameras, decks) that use tape.

    Also sending programs and promos to other stations and distributors around the country and around the world, is easily done by mailing tapes. An HD tape in the format used by your client ensures that your programs are ingested properly and that there is minimal loss of quality during the process.

    Sending 30 or 60 minutes videos to different clients in ProRess or DVCProHD files.. daily (30-60GB files), is not practical. Nationwide, the average internet speeds are still 6137kbps. Not to mention, converting those files on the client's side generates unpredictable results (not everyone has QC implemented)

    @alcomposer As much as I would like a unified tape-less workflow, I doubt this is happening this year. You would know it for sure, if you worked in broadcasting. Tape is still the most reliable archival method.

    edit: reference for net speeds

  • Totally agree @John_Farragut. However tapeless is a solid reality- in a post Black Magic Cinema Camera world!

  • @alcomposer The gamble was a year ago when they introduced FCP X and letting go of all the legacy stuff and focussing on the new workflow. People were screaming that they needed tape back then, still do, because some professionals do. But the gamble Apple made is to let these professionals go, and getting on the new train. And the new pro market is getting bigger and bigger, because of the availability of cheaper tools.

    Fascinating that a show like Leverage is now being cut on FCP X. So for small shops, there seems to be a viable future for FCP X.

  • @John_Farragut there really isn't a gamble... Tapeless is here and now. 2012 will be the end of tape.

  • @pdlumina For tape workflow, FCP X will not do, of course. And there's a lot of legacy broadcast stuff out there. But I think that Apple realized there is a huge market booming that doesn't do tape. Even the new Blackmagic Cinema camera shows it. So FCP X is a gamble towards the new market shift. So yes, it pissed offed many professionals, but Apple gained also a market that is blooming. In the end, FCP X will be used by professionals of all sorts. Funny stuff is, FCP wasn't really a "pro" app in the beginning, only did mainstream DV. And eventually gained traction in a specialized market, adding features that catered towards them. Now FCP X is aiming more mainstream again.

  • Because I was bored and frustrated...

  • I agree. I think the Smoke announcement today is giving them a bit of a boost, too. This has the potential to be a very good year for the NLE! I have felt limited in my toolset for the past year. Now with Ivy Bridge, new upcoming iMacs and laptops, Hackintoshes, or just PCs, I think we have lots of valid options and solid ways to work. Very excited right now about the potential. But that could just be the P.R. talking :D

  • Here we go, Apple shares roadmap for 2012: http://www.larryjordan.biz/app_bin/wordpress/archives/1800

    In a phone call with Larry Jordan, Apple has shared a roadmap for Final Cut Pro X in 2012:

    Here are the bullet points (none of this was demoed) of the features that Apple is working on (and sharing with us):

    • Multichannel Audio Editing Tools
    • Dual Viewers
    • MXF Plug-in Support
    • RED camera support

    Looking forward to these features. I don't really miss a dual viewer, but I do scream for better audio editing tools!

    It looks like Adobe scared the shit out of them with CS6. Apple is not typically providing a roadmap. They did it after the big Final Cut Pro launch debacle, but stopped doing it when things settled down a bit. Interesting developments.

  • I have the black magic drivers and will report back on how they behave...

  • One nice feature that's returned is the ability to right-click on a transition and change the duration. I'm just so used to doing that in 7 it's nice to have it back rather than clicking ctrl-d each time.

  • Looks like 10.0.4 supports 1080p60 footage now.

  • Here's someone's experience of redoing color grading with Resolve and the final edit with FCPX.

    http://www.fcp.co/final-cut-pro/news/794-fcp7-to-resolve-to-fcpx-an-indie-red-workflow-for-feature-length-motion-pictures

  • @pdlumina no you can not control decks within FCPX. However you can control them with the AJA VTR application. Problem is you have to export a qt first. So realistically you still need to use FCP 7 for your editing/layback.

    While I dont have much love for X, it is becoming a rare occasion for me to lay off to tape. I cut news every now and then and the client now wants me to upload everything as dvcpro100. That said, I still need to work with tape enough that it makes X more of a toy than a pro app for me at this time.

    The next few years will be interesting in the world of broadcast! Very curious to see what is announced at NAB next week.

    I'm starting to consider a hackintosh for one of my beefier edit rigs. The positive being that I also get a smoking fast windows rig for CS6 when it's available.

  • @5thwall You mean to say that now you have output from FCX through the KONA card into a Pro monitor? Can you control decks from within FCX to ingest? (DVCPro, Betacam, HDcam, etc)

    People don't seem to understand the importance of those things and simply discard tape formats and embrace the tapeless workflow of FCX, but for TV stations this is imperative. We are still stuck with FCP7 because of this.