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First RED DRAGON video on Vimeo
  • 65 Replies sorted by
  • I still look upon ftg out of that cam and come to the same conclusion, it has no soul, much like it's owner... Their skin tones are better, but it still looks a little meh and lifeless.

  • @rockroadpix

    "it has no soul, much like it's owner..."

    I agree with you, you can dislike a product. I'm not a Red fan, I became a Red owner the day they sold Red Mx for $4000, and yes, I like what it does, 4.5K 2.40:1 RAW, can you believe it at that price? I like Sony F5-55-65, I like Canon C300, I like BMCC.

    Surely I will buy one of the above, but for my budget now, let's say: surely i will buy the 4k BMCC :-)

    Pay attention to what you say, because there's a lot of indipendent filmakers and Award winning/blockbuster directors that made their fortune with Red cameras, and between them I can recognize some artists with a great soul, so your conclusion is pointless.

    Let's say: FOR YOU that camera it has no soul, and that is legit.

    When you speak about other people, please consider the Humanity as something that you can't put in a box. You can't judge who has a soul and who don't, just for a tool.

    My advice? I give it you for free: stay out of people life/soul and continue to dislike the THINGS you dislike.

    I'm in Europe, we had bad examples of people who decided who's got soul and who not.

    All this with no means to offend, just weight your words before write them in a community.


    P.S. If you refer as Jannard like the owner, that's quite the same thing: you: should bring examples of that guy not having soul.

  • Once again, out of all the REDS, this camera has the most life in it. Really impressed. I'd hope so for the price but you can get alot of life for $2000 and a BMCC these days, just don't pan it too fast ;)

  • @vicharris

    You got right about BMC, consider i was thinking about the compact BMCC, then i tought: it's 1080p, how can it be better of GH2 with a good patch? Not so better to tempt me to "upgrade" from GH2 ;-)

    Even $2000 BMC, it will deliver a nice 2k, but 2.5k debayered is not yet the best 2K ever.

    My thoughts? I really agree with @shian on this, when he says 4k can deliver the perfect 2k. So my wish is a price drop even for the 4k BMC (at $3000, a 1k drop like its older sister), and it would be a great deal.

  • @Jean71 Yep but the 2.5K for $1999 is pretty damn sweet. As long as I can control the RS, I really can't see myself going back to GH2. There's just a magic there especially over the GH3. But they are all different tools for different jobs. Still impressed with this new RED though! I've never liked skin tones from RED cameras before this one.

  • @Jean71

    +1 I also sign your statement about C300 / FS700. If you don't need slomo and have the the budget get a C300. Amazing colors out of the camera will allow you to do a lot of jobs in short time. If you dont have the budget for a c300 try to intriguing your clients with some slomo shot and you will have a very fast return of your investment.. For blockbuster purpose get a team and rent your equipment.

    coming back to the topic: I liked what I saw. Peroid.

  • @Jean71 -You're taking my comment a little too seriously. Lighten up. Does this cam produce better skin tones than previous Reds? Yes. Part of the issue here could be the person behind the lens.

  • @rockroadpix

    Did you mean that? It doesn't seem to me, but if you tell you did, then i've taken your comment too seriously, yep!

  • I have done my best. I saw a fatal flaw in the camera industry. We did our best to address it.

    I will now sink into the background, I hope with my reputation intact. I will work on the future of digital cinema… behind the scenes.


    Jim Jannard steps away, Jarred Land is now the boss.

  • @Jean71 As a GH2 owner, the things I miss the most are:

    • A higher dynamic range.
    • RAW or compressed RAW.
    • Higher frame-rates.
    • HIgher resolutions.
    • Reduced/eliminated rolling shutter issues.

    All of the cameras announced so far in the BMCC range address at least two of those, and at least one addresses 4.

    I got my GH2 used for $600. The BMPCC is around $1,000. If I were buying new equipment at the moment, it would be at the top of the list. It adds 40% of the functionality I was most looking for in a new camera for $400 more than I paid for the GH2. That's huge.

    The GH2 has lots of things that it also does really well, but it seems odd given the huge amount of interest in things like "more dynamic range" or "adjust color profiles/film modes" or "higher than 8-bit codec" in terms of the speculation for the GH3 was released to not be impressed by a camera that adds all those things for less than the original MSRP of the GH3. :)

  • Always so melodramatic, Red. CML ought to be pretty entertaining right about now.

  • @Oediapax Melodramatic or not, he's 100% right about the price and resolution changes in the industry around the time of the RED One. I didn't always agree with the tone of his posts, but I really respected and appreciated the huge change in digital cinema that RED brought about (both directly and indirectly), both in terms of their own pricing and the subsequent pricing of their competitors.

    • Pre-RED (early 2000s): $250,00 for Sony's top of the line digital cinema camera (which shot at 1080P).

    • At the time Jarred Land Steps Down in 2013: The most expensive digital cinema cameras are all under $90,000 in their starting configurations.

    I think that's a good thing, no matter what brand you choose to buy.

  • @thepalalias

    Hmm. You can make same parallels with FF digital cameras comparing 2005 and 2013:-) Huge part of this price reduction has nothing to do with Red at all.

  • The Sony F55 wouldn't be here by now without Red. They have learned quite a bit from them – good or bad ;-)

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev I see what you're saying but bear with me. :)

    Sony was still launching their 1080P F35 at $250,000 in 2008.

    The first feature length film shot on a RED camera (under $20,000 for the body only) was released in 2009.

    Sony's next top of the line camera launched in 2011 for $65,000.

  • The Sony F55 wouldn't be here by now without Red. They have learned quite a bit from them – good or bad ;-)

    I disagree here. While they learned some things, main issues were simple technical similations that are now much more easy to overcome (sensor speed, LSI perfrmance, RAM speed, fast enough SSD, etc).

  • I think anyone nitpicking about things like dynamic range and resolution at this price level should go ahead and take a look at this for a second:

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev

    "Jim Jannard steps away, Jarred Land is now the boss."

    Jannard have the habit to discuss with all the people that don't like Red cameras.

    In my point of view that's a bad habit, since he's legitimating people that are not in his league.

    The day a great DP or a great Director will step up and will say: Red cameras are shit, that will be the day to discuss with that people. But he can't go away from his forum, just because some 2nd category DPs loves to tell he is a dumbass, etcetera.

    It's like one come here, out of the blue and say: Vitaliy hacked that camera, why he didn't work on the other camera?

    Or other people saying: Vitaliy did this? I can do better!

    Prove it! What this people prove? Jannard made Red cameras at $17.500 when Sony 900 was at $200,000.

    Now Sony cameras are VERY good and we can choose where put the money (if we have it, LOL, not my range of prices).

    Anyway, Jannard will come back, i think he likes drama :D

  • @Jean71 - I don't care for his antics, but yeah I have no idea what his soul possesses. It was more sarcastic flippant joke than anything.

  • Aliud est facere, aliud est dicere.

  • Wow! Mucho bettah...

  • @rockroadpix I liked the one where you had the sparkler, skintones and shadow in frame at once. And the way it handled the beach shot with the sun in frame - I do shots like that in HDR all the time.

    So you liked this footage better - did it feel like it had soul to it or was there something essential that still felt like it was missing to you?

  • I liked the skin tones a lot better and the night time stuff. It def had more of an oomph for me. Yes, more soul.

  • @rockroadpix Okay, good to know. :)

    Sometimes I think people get the idea that there is a "look" using RED that really comes more from the way that some people apply than the camera itself. The Dragon looks even more flexible than the MX sensor I worked with in the past.

  • Wow! Yet again I'm really blown away by this sensor. Like I've said I've never been a fan of REDS. Not sure if it's just the way people grade them or what they do to actors skin (Little biased on this one since I'm one of those actors!) Anyways, just really great, organic, sharp, lovely images. I much prefer this over the SONYs too.