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Diagonal rain appears using GH2 + Premiere Pro CS6 without a hack
  • Hi,

    I've been trying to work out why exporting some noisy low light footage in premiere pro CS6 is giving me 'diagonal rain' problems that aren't present in the original m2ts files from my GH2.

    Reading two similar topics (below) the problem seems to be related to GOP length, which hack is being used, and the decoding abilities of certain players. But I shot this footage with the original firmware so this can't apply? Possibly it is a CS6 specific issue?

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/5120/please-help-problem-with-my-gh2-footage/p1 http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/3804/strange-pulsing-diagonal-pattern-in-gh2-hack-footage/p1

    It's not footage I can take again so any advice on how to export this without the noise would be amazing... I'm a beginner but not posted it there as the problem seems to be a complicated one.

    I just uploaded the start of my edit to youtube for an example of the problem. Some of my footage was 24p and some was 50 fps 720p but the problem persists in all the export formats I've tried;

  • 115 Replies sorted by
  • @charlie_orozco this achievement is in the patches you can find in "the end" topic

  • @apefos I thought you had found a way to fix how Premiere and AE interpret the files, effectively eliminating the diagonal rain. I'm right now working on a project that, even though I though had a patch, apparently still has diagonal rain which is ruining the shots. No word on that?

    Thanks!

  • How I solved/fixed it:

    I perceived that a grey surface is where the rain shows itself more, so I started correct exposure in a flat grey wall and start to underexpose a third fstop each time from f3.5 to f22 to get a dark image.

    the main matrices, (scaling tables) was in a design to be a multiple of 6 or half six in all positions, or it was in a design to be 6 in the dct number and multile of 2 in the other positions. So I did a try to do the same in the deblocking tables, and then the diagonal rain pulsing pattern disappears.

    First I set the deblocking intra and inter with 1 (one) in all positions. This means no quantization at all. Problem was solved but some macroblocks shows up.

    Then I did a try in 6 in all positions, 6 was the dct number in all the scaling tables with other positions multiple of 6 or 3. It worked until the image got 3 fstops underexposed, then the rain appears, so I perceived that I should increase the deblocking values.

    So I increased the deblocking intra all to 36 and keep the deblocking inter all 6, rain disappears. but some mud happens, it was so much deblocking.

    Then I lowered it to 18 in all intraframe positions and to 3 in all the interframe positions. It worked ok, enough debloking and rain keep away. I did a try in 12 in all intra positions but not worked, 18 was ok.

    so the deblocking intraframe is

    018 018 018 018

    018 018 018 018

    018 018 018 018

    018 018 018 018

    (018 in the intra deblocking was ok to deblock the image, no need more, I saw the image frame by frame in 400% zoom, light, shadow and gradients)

    and the deblocking interframe is

    003 003 003 003

    003 003 003 003

    003 003 003 003

    003 003 003 003

    (006 in all positions also works for interframe, but I prefer lower quantization in the interframe, less mud)

    I think the numbers in deblocking tables must be related to the dct number of the main scaling matrices. My scaling matrices has 6 in the dct number so using multiples of 6 or half 6 in the deblocking worked ok. I think if you use 4 in the dct number of the scaling matrices, then the debloking must be multiple of 4 or 2, just a supposition.

    Also I perceived that the main scaling matrices works better when all the numbers have a relationship to be a multiple of some number, example: all multiple of 6, or all multiple of 3, or all multiple of 2. the camera processor does not stress with this design, see the matrices in the "the patch" topic.

  • you need to read all my topics in the top settings section of pv to understand everything

  • That's aweome, @apefos ! Does that mean that the patch is basically the stock settings but with only the rain bug fixed?

  • Problem is solved.

  • The issue is related to the Deblocking Tables.

  • It seems I found a way to solve the diagonal rain pattern problem.

    I am not sure yet.

    I am doing tests.

    If I find it I will upload the patch here:

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/11805/the-apefos-settings#Item_45

  • I would note that after learning how (& why) the link from PrPro to Speedgrade & back works on the CC side of things, my ... that's bloody handy. Takes a few seconds to take a sequence over to Sg to do "dailies" corrections and come back after doing them. There's no exporting of edl or whatnots, it just brings up Sg and off you go. With a few little caveats, but my ... is this a better faster way of working.

  • @DouglasHorn

    Nothing to be condescending about, or even actually to 'agree' about. I'm a regular "attendee" over on the Adobe forums as I work using a bunch of Adobe, from Lr on through Prelude, PrPro, Sg, & Ae ... not particularly skilled in them past the Lr/stills side of things, so I to damn well need the help. Been through tons of threads including a lot of posts by Adobe staffers on the entire massive argument over what is Adobe's 'aim' ... what they've actually done, what they intend, and what everybody on the planet supposedly thinks they're doing.

    The staffers are all rather direct over CS6 ... period. It's dead as far as ANY new features, it's only being kept going for those who still cannot or will not choose to go to the CC programs. Completely consistent with all the company's public statements also. The ONLY things going out to anyone running CS6 are bug-fixes and still a few codec updates, that sort of thing. Just as they did with CS4 after CS5 came out, but stopped doing when CS6 came out. All new features and GUI things are being developed for the CC programs. Period. One "issue" back you still get some support. Two "issues" back, nope. It will simply stay as is.

    I don't have any idea what there is even to disagree about. They've been very clear on this. And the CC PrPro and Speedgrade especially have some major differences with the prior versions in workflow. Which will never go into CS6 anything. And absolutely none of this is my opinion or speculation. It's simply what the Adobe staffers and public statements say ... bluntly, directly, consistently.

  • @rNeil - well, we may not agree on this, but at least you took the time to be condescending about it.

  • @madrenderman Could you please explain further or provide a link to that solution? I've been following this conversation for a long time and it's the first time someone hints to a real solution.

  • is an old problem... solved... the problem born when you shoot at not real iso, 160x... usually to 800 iso with gh2, standard or hacked. MC decoder do a wrong work on deblocking mts. if you disable by regedit on windows you solve problem for all software... is not a gh2 problem, is not a premiere problem, is not an hack problem IS A H264 DECODING PROBLEM.... please avoid to waste time e words on old (since two years ago) problem... if you do some research you can find it, and you find right edit for your regedit modification.

  • @DouglasHorn ... actually, you may still be missing the reality a wee bit. CS6 is dead according to Adobe for feature additions or any major modifications. The new link from PrPro direct is an example ... it's a very different beast from the one we had in CS6 versions, and that new one is not ever gonna be out in a CS6 update ... as are a number of other things they've added since.

    CS6 is locked in time as far as feature sets and functionality go. CC is the only place new features and functionality will be added.

  • Since first installing CS6, via CC, truthfully I haven't looked at any of the patch notes on what is actually being fixed or changed. I'm sure it has nothing to do with actual features, just OS issues or the like. I would classify buggy MPEG decoding as a bug worth fixing but Adobe often has odd priorities.

  • @rNeil - I understand the CC model and rationale behind it. I was responding to BurnetRhoades's comment about the new CS6 updates that are being pushed out to CC subscribers. Those should be going out to paid CS6 users in a timely manner as well. If they've already developed these and are distributing them to CC subscribers they should go to CS6 users at the same time.

  • @DouglasHorn

    The main point of the CC model is to push things out to the users quicker. Rather than developing an entire new product every 14 months or so, the goal is to send out improvements on this or that to the user-base as soon as they are ready, not holding onto them for another few months.

    Those changes to the CC version are not going to get implemented in CS6 because that version is no longer in development. They'll send out bug fixes, and a few things that would enable users to continue so far with new codecs, but no new features or even modifications to current features will be coming.

  • I guess I should have clarified, when I said CS6 I was specifically looking at After Effects, since I don't render anything out of Premiere. But, I just looked, the last update came in on the 10th as well. Some parts of CS6 that I have installed from CC are quite old however.

  • Interesting. I regularly update CS6 via the Adobe Application Manager but I haven't seen a new version of PrePro in a while. I wonder why they would push them out more frequently to CC subscribers...

  • You might get a "fix". You're welcome to wish. Personally, I wouldn't count on it. It's just a "might".

  • They have been pushing out CS6 updates to Creative Cloud subscribers. They have been continuing to update CS6 this whole time. Given they are fixing other issues it hasn't been "done" since the CC version was introduced and the push to get everyone on Creative Cloud. Someone is deciding what bugs are worth fixing and what aren't so there actually is some level of expectation that it could be fixed in CS6 if it's fixed in CC, given it's because of a 3rd party library the app is compiled with.

    My last update for CS6 was 14 days ago.

  • Not even "expectable". As they've been very clear about, CS6 is done. It's an old "ish" and they've moved on, but will still sell it to those who don't want to be on the CC versions. So no, there will be no upgrades of CS6.

  • I'm not holding my breath but how likely is it that Adobe will do that?

  • It would be solved in CS6 if they pushed out a new version with updated Main Concept MP4 libraries.