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Diagonal rain appears using GH2 + Premiere Pro CS6 without a hack
  • 115 Replies sorted by
  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    No problem with 5D2RGB which has its built-in decoder, not DirectShow. My impetus in this discussion was from an engineering POV.

    I just attempted to use this software http://paul.glagla.free.fr/filmerit_en.htm to raise the "merit" of another H.264 decoder (I found one installed by DivX) over the MainConcept one. I still get rain with HDLink, maybe I did something wrong; the theory is fine :), Cineform tech does use DirectShow.

    Regarding GOP: Yes, it may be as simple as that. I only have a sample size of N=1 for each GOP length so it's conjecture, but:

    Flowmotion (GOP=6) --> rain

    Valkyrie (GOP=3) --> no rain

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I, too, wanted to know why the rain, but then I decided I had better things to do and changed the patch.

  • andynzandynz

    Hi guys. Having the same conversation over on the Adobe Forums re the rain effect and Dr Dave has been posting there too but not much progress so far. This is a huge problem if you want to direct import GH2 MTS's into PP. Only work around that works for me is to use FFMBC and pre convert to Pro-Res. then the Pro-Res files import and work fine in CS6. http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1104226?start=40&tstart=0

    I have tried many combinations now and even using stock 1.1 firmware the fault remains so I am not aware of any patch that works. I use an under exposed coloured wall as the test shot as it shows the railn effect really clearly. Using Premiere CS5 there is no rain, using CS6 there is. Using VLC- no fault, Windows Media Player - no fault, BS Player shows fault.

    This is interesting as PP and BS Player use Main Concept filters. So it would all point to the fault being with the current Main Concept filters being buggy. All the more given using FFMBC (which I am pretty sure does not use Main Concept filters) reads and converts the files fine. Once in Pro-Res the Main Concept filters are not being used in CS6 so no fault appears.

    Question is baring Adobe or Main Concept fixing the fault, which seems a distant hope, does anyone know if you can change the filters in CS6 from the ones in CS5. Is this possible and or simple?

    Cheers Andy

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @andynz Someone else on this forum tried to change the filters in CS6 and failed, which is bound to happen if the app doesn't use the "merit" system in DirectShow. We're talking Windows here, I have no idea how this is set up in OS X.

    I personally tried (and failed for HDLink/Cineform - possibly user error) to change filter merits using this app: http://paul.glagla.free.fr/filmerit_en.htm

    You may want to put some time into it, I don't have any.

  • balazerbalazer

    One could try unregistering the offending DirectShow filters. Though I suspect if CS6 is building the graph without regard to filter merit, it's trying to instantiate certain filters and it would just fail if they were not registered.

    regsvr32 /u filename.ax

  • andynzandynz

    Thanks for the feedback guys. I am running CS6.0.3 Windows 7 64bit. My knowledge on usage of filters is limited and the merit system. I wasn't sure if PP calls a specific version of filter or uses the system wide settings for filters. If it is specific then I can see why CS5 would be ok and CS6 is not.

    Balazar, I will have a look at the link you suggested. Will also try removing my Main Concept conversion program from my edit system as I wondered if this was interfering in some way. Jim over at Adobe forums says he does not have the fault and does not have any other MC software installed so I will try this to see if it changes anything.

    For those of you seeing the fault, can you tell me what system you are running (win, OSX any other MC software etc) to so if there is any link. Thankfully I do have some time at the moment to try and figure this. Better to spend time now to save import time later :)

  • andynzandynz

    Tried removing my other MC software today but no luck, the fault remains. A bit tired of this today, will see if I feel refreshed with energy after the weekend :)

  • andynzandynz

    Hi guys. Can anyone who thinks their GH2 DOES NOT have the rain fault do us a favour. Can you shoot a 10 sec clip of a plain pale coloured wall, under exposed and the post it somewhere we can download it.

    It would be good to have an example of any camera that apparently does nor exhibit this fault so we can make some progress on nailing what the problem is.

    Cheers Andy

  • DrDaveDrDave

    It is not the cam. Don't waste your time with the cam, just use a 3 GOP patch or upsample to Cineform. Cineform looks awesome!

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    I second DrDave, it's not the cam. Rain appears with other long-GOP implementations as well, from other cameras. Cineform is also subject to installed DirectShow decoders, DrDave claims to have eluded that, I haven't. I use Valkyrie @ GOP=3. I understand there is no rain @ GOP=1 either.

  • andynzandynz

    I guess GOP=1 is I frame only so that would work but don't you end up loosing all the advantage of 264 encoding by having intra frame compression only rather than inter frame compression I+P with more of the bandwidth going into detail and reduced noise?

  • andynzandynz

    I have FFMBC which I have used successfully for MKV to PRORES, is Cineform the same quality, better, worse than prores? Is Cineform available open source or paid?

  • LPowellLPowell

    @andynz Cineform records in 4:2:2 color using a proprietary I-frame-only encoder. Unlike ProRes, the Cineform codec is available free from GoPro for both Mac and Windows:

    http://gopro.com/software-app/cineform-studio/

  • andynzandynz

    Great, thanks Will download and give it a go. So a high bit rate ptools with GOP=1 is going to do the trick for direct import to PP?

  • andynzandynz

    Just to cmment I use FFMBC which is open source and encodes ProRes 422 on my windows PC. Only way I am aware to encode ProRes on windows. It works so will be interesting to compare Cineform and ProRes. I am guessing I will be hard pressed to see the difference.

    As an aside if you encode 264 with GOP=1 does this make it less CPU intensive to decode given the decoder is working intra frame only. Just thinking about the hiccups you get when scanning through 264 clips normally.

  • andynzandynz

    Just tried using Cineform but having a problem. I tried to 3 GH2 MTS files but Cineform studio does not see MTS so renamed to .mp4. It sees the files but does not import. No error messages just does not import. The files are contiguous files 2 x 4gb and 1 1gb from 1.75 hour continuous record. Recorder with ptools firmware with bit rate increase only to 25mbs. Any ideas on what the problem may be?

  • andynzandynz

    I tried a Cineform converion via AME and it seemed rather slow. I went back to FFMBC and rendered in ProRes 185mbs at 60F/sec which gave me a fairly quick conversion time so for the moment I will stick with ProRes. Will also try a GH2 firmware with I frame only and see how it looks.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @andynz ref Cineform: for .mts you'd have to use the HDlink conversion tool from Studio Premium.

  • andynzandynz

    Thanks for the Studio Premium suggestion. I have done some more trial conversion and ProRes is the bet option I can find. FFMBC is not as good as latest FFMPG using "Another GUI" front end for FFMPEG. FFMBC converts on PC fine to ProRes but is slower than FFMPEG. It does not seem to use all processors to the max and this has been noted in other forums. It is probably due to the slower release cycle for new versions of FFMBC. FFMPG uses all available processors to the max and does a quick and excellent job of conversion. Best of all you get ProRes encoding on PC for free.

  • andynz22andynz22

    Did some more testing in combination with Jim over on Adobe Forums. Using the same firmware version that he does "Driftwood Cluster v7 'Apocalypse Now' - 6 GOP Nebula '444 seti" my GH2 MTS files import and export form PP CS6 without fault so the camera is not at fault as such.

    At least we know it is a combination of GH2 stock compression settings and the Main Concept filters used in PP CS6. Since both sides will point the finger at the other the solution seems to be using Pro-Res transcoding or custom firmware.

    So no definitive reason for the problem but a better understanding I guess.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    So it's not the GOP length what triggers the fault (you do confirm it was GOP=6 right?); Flowmotion is GOP=6 and does have the fault. Well then we haven't made any progress really.

  • radikalfilmradikalfilm

    @lpowell may want to look at differences between his encoding matrix and the one from the patch you used. It becomes an elimination game - one which neither you or I are suited to play.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I loaded up the Flowmotion and the GOP says it is "3", unless I am looking in the wrong place. So I am assuming the problem lies elsewhere. For now, Cineform it is.

  • lucabrasilucabrasi

    Hello everyone, I'm a user Flow Motion 2.0.2 and I have no problem with rain Cs6 purchased. Monday I try to solicit new adobe, since I've paid, perhaps for the last time, but personally I'm hoping for a change in the Flow 2.0.2. to solve the problem.

    May I know what other trusted and tested patch I can install to try to eliminate the effect of rain on Cs6? thank you very much greetings to all

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I have tried a number of different things and for sure the best way is to upsample to Cineform before editing. I wish it were not so, but it is so.

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