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Nikon D5200 topic
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  • i have just downloaded the street test and Hans was right. With just a little gama setting I could see the green grass etc, truly amazing. I am not on my calibrated screen but it looks like he was right.

  • I also downloaded the original grass footage. I think I found the problem.

    When I play the footage in the timeline the grass is there and it is not crushed, so you can lift it because it is there.

    When you play the footage on window media player, it is completely crushed and you cannot see the grass, you just see black. It seems WMP is doing wrong interpreting the gamma when it plays the file.

    My supposition to what happened to that video is when it was edited the software or the encoder interpreted the gamma in a wrong way so the original footage looks crushed when in real it was not.

    So it seems it was not done intentionally, but I would never upload a video with this kind of error, I would redo until the original footage looks like the way it is before upload it. I recommend @Craftwerk to be more scientific in the tests, I mean: just upload things without this kind of editing error.

    Edit post: I would like to say sorry due to be hard talking when I found the problem, I will try to be more polite in these kind of situations if I find wrong things.

  • Lets move to the another problem:

    I see horizontal lines pulsing in the original grass video, on the grass and near it on the road. These horizontal lines pulses and if you lift the brightness they become more visible, but...

    In the other original footage showing the bike handlebars there is no horizontal line problems.

    So my question is: why there is these lines in the grass original video and these lines just disappeared in the original bike videos? Both is high iso... so the difference is too big that makes me think it was shoot with different cameras.

  • @apefos "So my question is: why there is these lines in the grass original video and these lines just disappeared in the original bike videos? Both is high iso... so the difference is too big that makes me think it was shoot with different cameras."

    The old GH1 did similar does my cx730 at high db..this is the unreliability in shooting at high gain.

    I have a question. Why would you think Hans would want to do "fake" tests?

    You need to get out a bit more.

  • @apefos These lines are not always present in the same magnitude, it probably also has to do with ISO settings. I also filmed with 2 different lenses, the Tamron 17-55 F2.8 and the Nikon 50mm F1.8. Perhaps this has to do with it also. I am no scientist, I am a hobbyist and hope that on this forum there is somebody that can look into it.

  • I did a test right now with the GH2. I set it to 12800 iso with a manual lens. So I changed the fstop in the lens.

    when the image is underexposed the LCD shows these pulsing horizontal lines and they tend to disappear when I open the fstop and expose well. Also, even when the exposure is correct, if there is a dark object in the frame the lines appears in this object. Also the Smooth and Nostalgic shows more lines than Standard and Cinema because they lift shadows more when exposure is the same.

    So to use high iso it is a must to do a correct exposure and choose a Picture Profile (Style) which avoid the lines. Neutral can give more DR to the shadows but probably it will show more lines than Standard in high iso. Neatvideo can help minimizing these lines, in my tests the noise reduction decrease the nuisance from the lines, but not erase them completely. Maybe the horizontal lines appears more in the grass footage because it was underexposed and not on the bike footage because it was correct exposed.

    A good test to do with the D5200 is to try to find how much it can get underexposed in high iso before show these horizontal lines with each picture profile/style. It is simple, if someone wants to do it, just select each profile and shoot a night video in 3200/6400 iso with a manual lens changing one fstop at a time.

    @Mimirsan I will get your advice! I am too nerd about gear! There is a song from a Brazilian singer which says: "I used to love as a fisherman who loves more the toils instead of the sea". I always think about this song when I am too much immersed on gear, there is a whole world out there waiting to be shoot no matter the gear you have!

  • I've noticed another thing, when I shoot with the 18-200mm Nikon in low light and high ISO, the socalled lines or streaks are not as thin as when I shoot with the 50mm F1.8 lens. They are thicker, looking more like the random noise. Shooting with my 50mm F1.8 produces sharper and thinner lines. So obviously it also has something to do with the quality of the glass.

  • @apefos, I think you should use some restrain, because Craftwerk is giving up his time for us all. There might be some errors but that does not mean that his test are not valuable. He is giving raw footage from the camera and everybody can make his own judgement. I think you are right about the dynamic range test. The original footage was crushed so the lifting of the shadows looked more than it is possible.

  • About the horizontal lines: Neatvideo can solve this problem but the AA (anti aliasing) script with AviSynth also helps quite a bit to reduce them. The only thing is, like Neatvideo, the process is quite slow, sometimes about half a frame a second (on my 4 year old Pentium Quadcore).

  • Looking at the jpeg chart (seems that video follows closely the jpeg values) the D5200 follows the Nikon trend like the D800. So if we extrapolate with the D800, the dynamic range could be close to 12 stop with a flatter profile. For those that could do a test please test at normal iso values also, I see so many test in low light, sometime I call it no light.

  • @ Craftwerk, turn VR off and see if it does anything to the pattern noise, it could be electronic interference messing with the sensor.

    My D5200 won't be here till Friday or Monday. The first thing I'm gonna do is figure out the fixed pattern noise if somebody doesn't beat me to it.

    If anyone has a fully manual lens they could try that and see if it changes the fixed pattern noise compared to an auto lens.

  • @Craftwerk I just want to to express my gratitude for spending the time to do these tests. If it were not for your generosity, I don't think that many of us would have even given this camera a second look.

    Regarding the horizontal lines in the shadows, I think that it could have something to do with your ISO setting. That doesn't necessarily mean just lowering the ISO to the lowest point possible. Sometimes there is an odd sweet spot. On my GH2, ISO 640 is just about as clean as ISO 160. As a result, I won't shoot at any other ISOs.

  • @squig Oke I'll do some shots without VR. But the 50mm F1.8 that I used on those street shots has no VR, it's the 1.8 G type lens. Those shots also has these lines here and there. Great lens by the way.

  • @QuickHitRecord That could be the case, I thought I saw some changes in the pattern when shooting indoors i had to raise the ISO from 200 to 400 and I believe it looked better. I'll check that one out too. But I must say that this type of noise doesn't bother me because it can easily be dealt with. For those of you who doesn't use Neatvideo, there is this free and good conversion program for video files, called Mediacoder. It has a denoiser build in that works really good.

  • Doing another test with the AA Avisynth script to minimize these lines. Looking good so far. Still need to denoise the splotches and such but the script deals with these lines nicely. Not completely gone but better than the raw footage.

  • I know the 50 isn't VR but there's still a lot of electronics in there. If you notice any difference with VR off then it adds weight to my interference theory. The only way to be sure is to try a fully manual lens.

    The photo I looked at shot @ 2500ISO had absolutely no FPN (fixed pattern noise)

    I'm seeing a spike in the histogram deep in the shadows looking at some jpeg stills, that's the FPN. It's being talked about on the photo forums too so hopefully Nikon will address it.

  • Shooting neutral with the contrast dialled right down and then crushing the blacks in post should get rid of any FPN.

    The shot @ 2500ISO did have VR on and NR off. It was the 70-200mm F/4 VR.

  • Anyone know if the clean hdmi output is uncompressed and 422.

  • The manual doesn't say for sure but somebody said they hooked it up to a ninja and it was all good.

  • Yeah, but does clean mean uncompress and 4.2.2

  • If it is we are close to the C300 territory. The gh2 lacked one thing and it was DR. If it is close as the new Nikon dslr in DR, with true high resolution with no aliasing/moire.

  • That's exactly what I'm thinking but the jury is still out on the rolling shutter and any other potential quirks.

  • Hi all, got a few new video clips on Vimeo. Short clips shot with the 18-200mm VRII Nikon lens. Footage looks amazingly crisp and colorful. Enjoy!!

  • Second clip. Raw footage straight from the camera.