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Rode NTG-2 with Zoom H4n problems, choosing alternatives
  • 105 Replies sorted by
  • spacewigspacewig

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev Thanks for the effort but that's not what I meant. Getting the battery is one thing but finding the plastic cradle the battery sits in (like the one on the charger) is what I would need. If we had to use this battery the preamp would have to have the right moldings or some kind of compartment with the proper contacts for the battery.

  • spacewigspacewig

    @frame Most phantom powered mics will work at a voltage between 18 - 52 volts so it is not really necessary to have +48 for a mic to work properly, though some mics will suffer if not powered sufficiently. What do you mean by subsonic filter? A low cut filter? Because an 80Hz cutoff filter will be very hard to hear unless you are recording sounds where most of the energy is in the bass frequencies.

    "full scale after a quarter turn of the volume knob..." seems like they wired the volume pot incorrectly.

    BTW, I just watched the video on YouTube, hahaha... That Oriental garden backdrop is priceless, adds some nice esoteric bullshit to the whole production. However, this might actually be a good unit to modify as it has a nice box and all the switches already in place. Frame, can you open the unit up and take sharp close-up pictures of the interior layout? You might be able to address the gain issue simply by swapping out one resistor. At that price I'd love to see what kind of components they are using. However just a box, XLR connectors, switches and potentiometer will cost you around that amount. Could be worth investigating further.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p5197.m570.l1313&_nkw=sony+f550&_sacat=See-All-Categories

  • spacewigspacewig

    How about external Sony batteries (like F550)?

    I just looked it up as I don't know what this battery is but excellent idea as this would give you a lot of miles with the unit. I would love to have this unit run in class "a" which has a distinctly different sound, especially on the top end which I think would be great for vocals, but consumes about 3 - 7 times the amount of current.

    The main problem would be finding the cradle for the battery. @Vitaliy_Kiselev can you source this part (cradle)? I would be more than happy to try if I had the right parts to work with.

  • FrameFrame

    @spacewig. I am interested, but do not have too much time. Would be nice if there was some PCB´s to buy in the future, with parts list. So one day for soldering and building a small cabinet... BTW, I am having a little trouble with a german seller "Musicstore", who sell a mic preamp under their own brand called "Fame". A warning to those, who think this cheap preamp might be a solution: This "Fame MC-10" preamp ist just a piece of junk. The step-up transformer for the phantom power chirps, the units (I tested two of them) only provide 36V phantom power, even though you read 48V on the Front panel-and the ads. A shame, because in the owner´s manual, the phantom power is "correctly" stated as 36V. The subsonic filter does not seem to work on my MKH-416, probably because phantom is to weak or the circuit is also rubbish. Last but not least, you´ll get full scale after a quarter turn of the volume knob... This piece of j... costs 30Euros. They have a "review" at youtube. I guess they are fully aware of the flaws, I posted my evaluations twice , they deleted them twice within a day.

  • RamboRambo

    @peaceonearth, I use the ME66 and K6 combination with the H4n, I can run the recorder at very low input settings as that shotgun has such high output on phantom or internal battery. Nice price, you got it for, I paid around $1000 many years ago including Rycote Softie.

    You should be very happy with it for many years, awesome quality product and also works great direct into the GH2 with the new Palalias audio settings 1 or 2.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    The preamp would be powered by a 9v battery

    How about external Sony batteries (like F550)?

  • spacewigspacewig

    For those of you interested in DIY I am currently working on a low cost solution to this exact problem, i.e. a portable preamp for shotgun mics to bypass the lousy one's that come standard on most portable recorders.

    The preamp would be powered by a 9v battery, have phantom power, be transformer balanced to ensure lowest noise performance and have unbalanced 1/4 and 1/8 outputs.

    I have built one and it is very quiet offering 60db of gain (probably way too much for personal recorders which usually have a nominal -10 input). I am presently working on the power supply which is basically a voltage multiplier circuit. Criterias I'm aiming for are low noise and low power consumption. Parts (high quality) should cost around $100.

    If there is sufficient interest perhaps we can start a new thread and I can post schematics, PCB layout, etc and we can develop this collectively (open source pre, ha, what's the impedance on that?)

    Cheers!

  • muntusmuntus

    @tonalt I had to stalk ebay, super creepy style. And it does seem like there are less Sound Devices products on ebay than there were six months ago. However, if you keep checking, you might find one with a Buy It Now price of $400. You just have to check it constantly.

    Also, just because you know how to properly spell things, don't assume for one second that sellers do. This auction is labeled as a "PreMix" http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sound-Devices-PreMix-/320902702744?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4ab74aa698

    Other key words for searches should include "sound devices" "mixpre" "mix pre", etc.

  • tonalttonalt

    @muntus Easier said than done. Keyword "MixPre" @ eBay -> 0 hits.

  • muntusmuntus

    Yeah, the MixPre-D has some nicer features than the original MixPre, which means you don't pad the line. However, if you already have the H4N and a mic, it's easier on the wallet to get an old used MixPre and the padded line than to fork out the big bucks for the newer model.

  • tonalttonalt

    @muntus Thanks for the link. He said that when you are using MixPre-D, there's no need for padded line: http://www.danmccomb.com/posts/987/connecting-zoom-h4n-to-sound-devices-mixpre-part-ii/comment-page-1/#comment-963

    Just buy couple of cables like this: http://www.buy.com/pr/product.aspx?sku=208405970&sellerid=34250053

    Has anyone verified that this works? It's coming clear that you need quality preamp like MixPre-D for quality audio and it's not cheap, so I have no faith for the solution Frame suggested.

  • FrameFrame

    Now, Vitaly, that was fast!! Text is also available in english... One addendum: The Audiolink III will be powered via USB. So one needs soldering skills to adapt an USB plug to a 5V power supply.

    Owning a SQN3 competitor called SIE MP323 for years, some brick of aluminium built to last forever, reliable but very big and heavy, I am searching for lightweight alternatives.

    One alternative could have been a mono mic-preamp called "Fame MC-10" or "Fame Mic-10", available at musicstore.de.

    "Fame" ist Musicstore´s own brand and the MC-10 is complete bullsh.. !!!

    Even though phantom power is stated and written on the front panel as 48V, it is only 36V. In the owner´s manual sent with the item, phantom power is correctly stated as 36 V.

    Not in the ads, not on the unit itself. Big blunder.

    Also you´ll get almost full scale afer 1/4 turn of the Input gain knob, so the rest 3/4 turns are lost to ... nothing. I had two Fame MC-10 to check, both had the same flaws, so don´t buy...

    So I hope the Audiolink III will be better

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    image

    http://www.miditech.de/site.php4?site_id=218

  • FrameFrame

    As far as an affordable preamp is concerned, especially as an alternative to the ART USB Dualpre mentioned earlier or even -maybe- as an affordable alternative to high-end field-mixers like SQN, Shure or Wendt: Miditech, a german sound company will bring a Mic-preamp called Audiolink III on the market late May. Two channels, 48V phantompower, analog outputs and independent monitoring with headphones. No levelmeters except for peaks, but we could use the GH2´s levelmeters. Originally designed for USB - recording (Like the ART) it could be used as a portable preamp. Price should be around 89 Euros, some shops promise 59 Euros Miditech promised to send me one Audiolink III for evaluation in late May. I will plug it directly to the GH-2 using the audio hacks. Hope I can post a small review in the first week of June. All the best, Frame

  • muntusmuntus

    It is my understanding that if you run the output from the MixPre(from the tape out, for instance), you can bypass the noisy preamps on the H4N by using the 1/4 jacks. Of course, you should also run a padded line to reduce the signal because it is too hot. Something like this Sescom cable will reduce it 25db. http://www.amazon.com/Sescom-LN2MIC-ZOOMH4N-Microphone-Attenuation-Cameras/dp/B004U3S1JA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1336844988&sr=8-2 This guy did a few different writeups for using the H4N with a MixPre. http://www.danmccomb.com/posts/987/connecting-zoom-h4n-to-sound-devices-mixpre-part-ii/

  • peaceonearthpeaceonearth

    @kellar42 I read about this modification but first of all Odade doesn't ship outside U.S. and I don't want to use a mail forwatd service. Secondly I don't want go the risk of long term handling in case of warranty. Thirdly it is slightly out of buget.. But as I said, I read a enthusiastic review.

    @Mark_the_Harp I have the idea to do a side by side test. I will post result here.

  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    @peaceonearth I'm interested to know how the ME66 compares with the Rodes - I've used the ME66 for a few years and it's a superb mic - very low noise, nice clean sound, good directional pickup characteristics.

  • kellar42kellar42

    I just ordered a Marantz PMD 661 super modded by the Odade brothers, after having had a H4n for a long while, getting it smashed and looking for something a little better. Went back and forth between the Fostex and the Roland R-26, finally ended up on this. Seems like the debates rage every which way. I have a NTG-2 and will be working with some better mikes as well in a couple of weeks, I'll let you guys know how it sounds!

  • MirrorManMirrorMan

    @peaceonearth the NTG-2 works well with the GH2 when you put a battery in it. You just need to get the right cables and adapters (XLR->mini-jack->mini-mini-jack). So unless you need the money there's no reason to get rid of your NTG-2.

    Also, save up for a good field mixer. The Sound Devices MixPre is one of the best audio equipment investments I ever made. You can run the line outs to your zoom and get a good strong, clean signal.

    If anyone wants I can make a test with the NTG-2 and Tascam DR100 just to compare. The preamps are ok, but probably not that much better than the zoom.

  • punditpundit

    (re-edited after reading the whole thread!)

    +1 for the Sound Devices MixPre-D. After much research I also bought one about six months ago to use with a Fostex FR2LE, NTG-3 and Oktava MK-012's. The audio quality is top notch with clean quiet preamps, a great headphone amp and proper metering.

    I realise this is quite a few $$$ but in the end I was looking for highest quality setup I could find for a reasonable outlay. Everything else ie. cheaper shotguns, Zoom's, in fact most small combo recorders all had some limitions with either noise, limited gain or battery life. I only wish the Fostex had digital in but the MixPre-D into the line input works fine.

    It's a pity the H4n doesn't have line inputs that bypass the noisy micpre's.

    However here is a suggestion. You can get a Fostex FR2LE from B&H for $599.00 USD

    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/432017-REG/Fostex_FR2_LE_FR_2_LE_2_Channel.html

    The preamps will be miles better than those in the H4n. In fact the FR2LE's micpre's are generally well regarded. If you use a Tamiya style R/C battery the Fostex will run for eight hours.

    If you sell your H4n for $150 and you've got yourself a great recorder for under $450.00.

  • JDNJDN

    What's nice about the mix pre-d is the usb out, so I use that as my mixing board, run right into the computer when doing scratch v/o. Nice little bonus of the new model.

  • WalterHWalterH

    @JDN et al. Definitely. If/as it works for budget and setup, investing in a high-quality pre-amp ala a mix pre-d is great. I look forward to adding that or similar to my overall kit when I can.

  • JDNJDN

    After doing much research on inexpensive shotguns, I picked up a ME80 on ebay (the black model -- last one produced) and I'm extremely happy. Very directional, picks up incredible distance; but does require a good clean preamp -- the money I saved over buying a more expensive shotgun went toward buying a mix pre-D. I expect to get 20 years out of the mixer and can save up for a schoeps hyper, which is what I really want, some day. I don't see a lot of value though in mid-range shotguns; they are never as good as the top of the line stuff that working sound men have in their bag; for me, you get more quality from a solid mixer -- and you area also assured it will hold its value should you ever decide to sell.

  • John_FarragutJohn_Farragut

    @peaceonearth That ME66 + K6 should give great sound with plenty of output level. Nice.

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