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Best way for new filmmakers/videographers to break into the business?
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  • I might make some people mad, hopefully not, but I feel like only one person here has really glossed over the only real bankable, solid thing you can do to further your career:

    Forge solid and genuine working relationships with people that can move you further, or participate in advancing your career.

    In the ideal world, you can be good and that's enough. This isn't an ideal world: without the votes of people controlling certain avenues, you won't go anywhere any time soon. Let people point to viral videos as much as they wish, but if you do any sort of serious marketing research (thankfully I have for several several years and my GF works at a Marketing Firm) then you'll know that it takes blogging power to really make a lot of things viral.

    Especially non-derivative narrative works.

    The only other thing I'd stress is doing work. Doesn't matter what kind of work, do work, finish work, present work. You can talk all day about how you may be this or that, nobody cares if you aren't showing. NOBODY.

    I don't do anything else for a living (which might be bad), this puts food on my non-existant table--it's a floor right now, and I didn't go to film school or any of that stuff. I started out in the barest way possible and right now I'm on my way into a deeper pit trying to just get another nano-budget feature film started.

    But, I wouldn't even be this far without having learned those two things very very early on.

    Take it or leave it, I guess.

  • @bitcrusher that's for a small job (1 or two light interview stuff) Usually it's $500 and up for commercials and bigger corporate. Its the NYC area, you have to be competitive or you can end up with idiots the same way that I did.

    @Vitaliy_Kiselev I would be happy to help with a Lighting /Grip FAQ

  • True that @mpgxsvcd. I think I was a lot more confident and upbeat about things while I was still in college, and only recently have things become a bit lackluster in my own position. I had a 30 minute script I wrote which fell through during production because of a weak crew and too short of a time window of shooting to give it credence to continue. Then I was basically thrown into assistant camera on a production that I was originally going to be DPing for (on what was a 3 man crew, including the director and sound man). The director wanted to do everything I guess hah. Too bad, too, I was about to have my first chance at operating a Red Scarlet, but I decided to save my money, research jobs, and see my brother off before he headed out to Chicago for graduate school, moving down to Florida instead.

    Here's my personal list of do's and don'ts that has helped me considerably with producing my own work and being marketable (only time will tell if it has payed off, but I do know that all of this has been perhaps spiritually digested through trial and error):

    1. If you have an idea, don't write it down later. write it NOW, and write it as if you were expressing it to someone who wouldn't understand the idea otherwise. This will help 'future you' remember that cool idea you had, without the idea only seeming 'cool' in retrospect (because it is easily articulated right there, just for you!)

    2. If you don't know your crew well enough, and by that I mean they aren't one of your best friends or your family who you also really click with creatively and in work situations - you better find out how to scrounge up some money to pay them. This makes them responsible for dragging their ass on set, and more importantly they magically become more concerned with doing a better job and understanding/appreciating your script.

    3. Same applies for actors. Especially if the actor is better at acting than you are at directing or writing (and for the most part, the people you want to cast often are).

    4. As far as finding talent, when I lived in Michigan I used a site called michiganacting.com. I'm fairly certain there is something like this in every state, if you live in the U.S, and perhaps something similar across seas? This will help considerably and usually you get anywhere between 5-20 emails a day from people interested in working on your project. This might be bigger or smaller elsewhere, but if you don't know anyone but your crew buddies (like myself in my current situation), sites like these aren't too bad, and you do in fact get some amazing local talent looking for their big break as well.

    5. Don't try to produce your entire work alone. Unless your an absolute workaholic champ, it WILL burn you out, and you will lose time, money and hope when things get out of your control because your hands are too full. You CAN find someone who is actually willing to help produce it with you, and this comes in handy particularly when you're juggling actors, production equipment, locations, making your last changes on a script, writing director's notes, creating shot sheets....The list goes on forever and it helps to have someone else making calls with you. Also, remember to TRUST this person, bring them in close to your project and your designs, and give them the ability to serve you well. This is another reason why money makes for a better organized project ;-)

    6. Feel free to co-write a script with someone you work well with, and split your responsibilities in half. One person is the director, the other the DP, and you share the producing jobs down the middle. I have done this before for a 15 minute project I did for my capstone class, and by golly did it create great results. Not only is this other person like a workout buddy, motivating you and keeping you on track, but that soul wrenching moment when you realize you don't have enough of WHATEVER doesn't smack you solely in the face. Not to mention two minds is often better than one, and ideas you never would have dreamed of, along with the ones you have, will be bred into your script, your shooting process, and your relationship with film. You learn a lot, and at the worst you learn that it doesn't work for you. It's like a good marriage that lasts only 3 months, until the next project!

    7. Someone always knows more than you, and someone always knows less. Learn from both of them, and help teach where you know you can. Be humble, be kind, and continue dreaming.

    That's all I've got for now, but hopefully some of that is helpful to someone out there!

  • @ahbleza great tutorial!

  • Above all else don't sit around waiting for that opportunity to come to you. Go out there and spend every waking minute trying to promote your work if this really is your dream.

    It is highly unlikely that your big break will come in any other situation other than someone really important viewing your work and saying I like what I see. The trick is that you have to do all of the other B.S. in order to get someone important to actually view your work.

  • Good to see more experiences. This is a really hard topic to answer...and really there are no REAL 'answers' as it boils down to experiences are the 'answers'. One thing to consider is that you may not accept a good and rewarding thing if it doesn't immediately suit your dream. Let's face it, sometimes we are stubborn and delusional :-p

    For example I took a playwrighting workshop and ended up dropping out of it because it wasn't moving fast enough for me, and most importantly I was too stubborn to take any criticism. I accidentally got into set design because I wanted to get some easy credits in the theater department and was randomly assigned to painting sets. 5 years later I was a New York Local 829 Scenic Designer, which opened up the TV work.

  • I'll go ahead and update the original post as well so we can see everything we've suggested.

  • Thanks for the responses, I appreciate the thoughts you guys have shared. Perhaps I've let my own frustrations take centerfold of this topic, sorry about that. What I originally intended this topic to be is a place to compile helpful online resources, tools and methods of breaking into the business, and any other thoughts that could be boiled down into something quantifiable for those who are looking to take some notes.

    ---What makes a strong candidate trying to enter in the film world, and how can you build yourself up to be that person? What are the best avenues to getting into specific video jobs? What are the most important pieces of equipment every beginning freelancer needs to start working with clients? What are people's personal experiences and how can that benefit those that haven't made it quite yet?

    A lot of of your responses have already helped quite a bit with building a positive outlook - let's see if we can't build up a database of resources for people looking to take the next step. I think that will help out the most people who take a look at this thread :-)

  • Make a short film about what it takes to make it in this business. If you have what it takes it will get you started. If you don't then it won't.

  • @brianluce

    I am a sucker for a good surfing Doc. Climbing Docs too.

  • I think the most important part is keeping a positive attitude. Dont see anybody as your enemy or the system as being against you. That gives you the role of a victim.

    Be humble and positive, surround yourself with people that do what you want to do.

    Meantime, as long as you dont get what you want, use every minute of your spare time to do the kind of art or filming you love. Eventually something of that might end on your reel, it gives you priceless experience and satisfaction.

    The best people i know have always been doing what their heart beat for, whether in their job or freetime.

  • @Brianluce A six figure script sale to a major sounds awesome! Yeah, that would definitely be a "big break". I guess I'd define a big break as being a credit (writing or directing) that actually opens doors and allows me to climb a few rungs of the ladder.

  • More money than I've got haha. Out of state loans are usually twice the ticket price every semester, and considering I was paying 7k per semester.... If I still lived in MI I'd definitely be talking to him, I was just curious to hear from my fellow gh2 users what they have found useful, tools, resources, etc.

  • "The only reason I know how to set up a C-stand is because I went to a local video shop where a guy who had worked on feature films for most of his life taught me about lighting equipment."

    This guy sounds like the guy you should be talking to.

    What dose it take to transfer to AFI or USC?

  • That's a great idea about the interviews - I think a lot of people could benefit from those answers.

    It's funny, MSU had one lighting class per semester, only let in a whopping 15 kids, and you couldn't get in until your last year!....I've found the biggest opportunities for learning stuff like this has always come from hard work, a little bit of cash, knowing the right people who are willing to teach you, and by demanding yourself and others to allow you to become knowledgeable at your trade. The only reason I know how to set up a C-stand is because I went to a local video shop where a guy who had worked on feature films for most of his life taught me about lighting equipment.

    In fact, I've been reading two books while I'm living at my rents house to prepare myself for whatever I catch out in one of the bigger cities. Both have have helped out considerably, and I think they'll help my luck once I get out there. For my desire to direct and create truly honest performances from the actors (which help create great stories), I've been reading this book called Directing Actors by Judith Weston. My film directing teacher actually recommended it to me when I was in his class, but I never got around to reading it until now. Definitely the best resource I've found to date for working with actors and understanding what makes a good actor and how you can make them a great one. For my camera work, I've been reading Cinematography Theory and Practice by Blain Brown. Also great because it gives great context to the theories with examples and pictures from films. It also understands WHY the rules are there, and go about telling you why they work and how they are often broken for good effect. I love breaking rules, and so this has been a great read finding out what those rules are and why they work so well.

    I think moving to where the action is and knowing as much as possible before getting there is about the most I can do at this point. The the VFX idea is a great one for anyone who is interested in that kind of stuff. I think perhaps knowing what kind of films you want to make will help determine what kind of skills and jobs you need to seek, but again I have no experience so perhaps I'm just talking out my ass. I think some of it really is down to luck, being in the right place, at the right time, but I also think you can help your luck considerably by playing your cards right.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev I'm not really qualified to work on such a FAQ, because I'm just a beginner in lighting. I never went to film school either. :-) Of course, I can edit the English grammar if someone with more knowledge than I wishes to contribute.

  • @ahbleza

    Make separate topic for this video, ok?

    I also thing about lighting FAQ page. let me know if you want to participate :-)

  • If you want to know about difference between CTB or CTO, C47 and what is a C stand, watch this. I learned that "C" in C-stand means "Century."

  • @rockroadpix

    wow day rate is $300 for a grip now! You kids have it good.

    My advice will only work if you know your way around a set. I would hope that after film school you would know how a C-stand works and what a C47 is. (but I would not know, never went to film school and oddly neither did anyone I worked with)

  • Guys, > before text work for citations very good :-)

    oops, forgot to hit the shift, that's why it was no bueno!

  • Guys, > before text work for citations very good :-)

  • @bitcrusher

    .Interduce yourself to all the rental houses sell yourself as and a grip that just moved to the area.

    This really doesn't work unless you know how to be a grip and being a grip is about as hands on experience as you can get. I hired a gut that begrudgingly took a college shoot that I was producing for the rate of $300 as a utility grip/pa type. I didn't know him and someone recommended him. Five minutes into the shoot, the DP was teaching him how to set up a c stand. He said he was a grip, but he wasn't. I felt like I was watching him the entire shoot to make sure that he didn't fuck something up. NEVER AGAIN. If I hadn't been out in the middle of nowhere, he would have been sent home.

  • @B3Guy "I'm going all the way. Feature length. Why not, I've done 20+ minute shorts. There seems to be this unspoken warning that you can't do a feature length film without a sizable crew and budget"

    Sweet and you should give it a go. I really love awesome films that were shot on a micro budget.

  • I'm practically in the same position as Ryan, but am in Orlando, FL. Everyone's answers here are GREATLY appreciated! Thanks guys! :)

  • I sort of got into the game diagonally, not really a Photographer / Videographer originally.

    I got my MA-exam in Fine Art, became a dad (the boy came the same week as my final exhibition) and suddenly everything was on end. After a couple of months of real dissaray I got my shit together, started a business, got a desk at a production company and went for every possible job. Through hard work and endless research I´m now in a position where I´m pretty comfortable with a lot of stuff and I realize I have a LOT to offer. Knowledge and skills that are not widely available, although it´s not easy to make potential employers / customers aware of this (because I´m mostly behind the camera)! And people can be skeptical about someone who isn´t a specialist in one thing only; especially so if you are skilled in a lot of different areas.

    My own personal network is not large enough yet; I still can´t be too picky about the work I do (the shitty jobs are available because no-one wants them - a good source of income if you can make money without working your ass off); nor do I have any competence as a salesman. Good relationships with a few good people ensure that I get enough fun jobs to make the boring ones worthwhile, and the mutual trust that comes from successfully working closely together with a few good people can be pretty powerful.

    Find a good bunch of people, and stick with it. If you get stuck, move. That is the best advice I can get.