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SLR Magic 2x ANAMORPHIC lens
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  • @Lpowell

    Sure there are many popular wides with large filter threads but I think the issue here is if there are ENOUGH good wide options, say from 58mm and below; which makes a controlled size / price adapter feasible. On the other hand, do you have any particular lens in mind which would use 72mm thread or bigger?

  • I would also state 1.5x-2x. Why, because the anamorphic look isn't about the crop, it's about the disproportionate morphing of vertical and horizontal detail. I find that 1.33x (LA7200) doesn't alter the image 'enough' to give that nice anamorphic look. Ultimately 1.33x adapters were created to convert 4:3 to 16:9...not for the anamorphic look.

    2x is the perfect anamorphic ratio, getting the 4-perf 35mm frame stretched out to 2.39 looks fantastic. In the 16:9 world though, it requires a large horizontal crop to get back to 2.39. Or, it can be cropped less, but I find >2.66 too wide, and it's hard to shoot consistently. If camera manufacturers start offering 4:3 shooting (with increased vertical resolution (not 1440x1080) 2x would be perfect.

    That's why I think 1.5x is the sweet spot for 16:9 sensors. Natively it gives 2.66 which is OK, and with a small crop, it's back to 2.39. 1.5x morphs the ratio of horiz to vert enough to give it that classic anamorphic look.

    So 1.5x from me. :-)

  • @slrmagic You really hit a beehive with your intention to make an anamorphic lens especially since Isco does not answer to any requests. Thanks for that!

    Implementing an oval iris of some kind in the lens would be my take for oval bokeh regardless of the squeeze factor of the lens. actually if you don't want flares thats an "anamorphic" solution for 16:9 no crop at all.

    After playing around with and looking at a lot of footage shot with various anamorphic adapters used on dslr my favourite is the Isco36, Isco42, Isco54 NON MC line combined with diopters for shorter distance focus.

    The most popular Idea i think would be to make kind of a copy of the isco36 that comes also with a taking lens made by you, but that can be separated to use with other lenses. $600 price tag and it will sell like crazy.

    The anamorphic shooters community wants good diopters beneath the commonly available +1 (the likes of +0.5/+0.4) this should be easy to do, I wonder why nobody does it.

  • @slrmagic, thanks for your reply, but IMHO, if a proven product at this point will be a better reply: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/customer-forum/219911-slr-magic-50mm-f0-95-m-24.html#post2119905 It seems from different forums, there are quite many dissatisfied customers, and they are not just volunteers but customers who put it real $$$$$$. At least, from a customer perspective, if slr magic could show a proven customer base with the 50mm "CINE" lens, then certainly people will get confidence esp if the new lens/adapter will be in similar price category.. And personally, I think even the word "CINE" for that 50mm is a bit of a hype. As Dan Chung mentioned to Andrew Reid over twitter, CINE lens is not just about 14+ blades and declicked focus ring... It's about a MATCHING SET of LENSES for filmmakers in terms of rendering. I will be a bit surprised if the rest of the set is not under planning, and suddenly the next lens/adapter will be an anamorphic adapter... just because it's catchy and certainly will generate as much hype as the 50mm CINE lens Noctilux. You guys are good marketers, but maybe company "commitment" is even more important for long-term customer loyalty. Just my 2 cents.

  • @mlysbakken We read that the expected budget by many here is $1200-$1500. m43 mount is the only option within this budget for wide angle anamorphic lens with a fast f/2.8 speed.

    A general purpose adapter of 72 or 77mm size is versatile but it is huge. Huge lenses cost a lot to manufacture and and as @010101 said people looking for this can buy the Isco 54

  • @slrmagic Also, are you sure about going with the m43 mount? Wouldn't that exclude a big part of the market?

  • @slrmagic I would definitely buy a 25mm, and I would probably buy a 35mm as well! However, do you think it would be possible with a larger aperture, for instance f:2? Or would that send the price skyrocketing?

  • @mobileavatar I will not discuss in details as it is not appropriate to discuss in this thread.

    To conclude what you have read on forums there are some points that were not made clear. Out of 20 or so volunteers from Steve Huffs workshop only two had a bad experience. The two users volunteered as beta testers. They were well informed there may be fixes that needed in the future. However, they choose to complain on forums. We are never able to resolve their issue as they would not send in the lens for servicing. Other beta testers had different issues as well but they were willing to ship the lens in for servicing and their issues are resolved. The lenses we are now shipping to not have the issues the beta testers had thus the point of the beta tester program.

    There are also people on this forum that were beta testers for us for the 12mm 1.6 lens. We offered a lens upgrade program for them and it is the best we can do.

    Hope we have answered your concerns.

    Kind rgds., Andrew

  • @kavadni If we could make the corrections optically we will definitely do it. After a brief making with our lens makers it is not possible =(

  • Thanks all for the input and experience sharing. So now we are to a point where we have decided a 1.35x will give us the 2.39:1 ratio that we all want but one thing we ignored is the bokeh characteristics. 1.35x will give anamorphic ovals that look more like circles but 1.5x will give a better anamorphic oval and it is worth the effort to crop out in post production.

    We have a new suggestion from the ideas we have concluded.

    -We need 1.5x-2x for the anamorphic look. -We want to have a 2.4:1 ratio -We all hope 4:3 Anamorphic mode will come one day (but it is now available by hack)

    How about a 1.8x anamorphic? With a future 4:3 Anamorphic mode in mind this would give 2.4:1 with good anamorphic bokeh.

    For the time being, it would turn 16:9 recording into 3.2:1 stretch and the user need to crop off the boarders to get 2.4:1 but it will guarantee good anamorphic oval bokeh.

    So something like a 25mm or 35mm f/2.8 Anamorphic with 1.8x squeeze for mFT sounds good?

  • @RRRR 72mm is a very popular filter size for wide-angle and wide-aperture lenses. It's not even the widest common size - many lenses take 77mm filters. The advantage to a 72mm rear thread size is that it's easy to adapt it down for use with smaller lenses, whereas fitting a small anamorphic adapter to a 72mm filter ring lens is problematic at best.

  • The comments regarding 1.5x bokeh vs 1.33x bokeh, have sent me off to try and get my head around what is possible if SLRMagic make an adpter vs what is possible if SLRMagic a dedicated Lens

  • @RRRR Yeah, I guess that makes sense :) But I don't think it would be a problem to go for 72mm, though. I'd be more carefull about going too small than too big.

  • @mlysbakken true but imo to design for 72mm thread as a point of attachment would be a bit strange - a 58mm thread for attachment and a larger diameter adapter would make more sense IMO, creating a look resembling LOMO round-fronts: http://www.flickr.com/photos/45352422@N08/4798935303/lightbox/

  • Having tried many anamorphic ratios, I feel others might at least try cropping to 2.67:1 before committing.

    If you're thinking about projection, look into projectors gaining popularity.

    Panamorphic is Optical (AFAIK) and seems versatile, Cheaper 2K Samsungs do digital un-squeeze.

    From The Good, the Bad and the Ugly (1966 - Techniscope ®) 2.35:1 Blu-Ray:

    Cropped to 2.67:1                                     Original aspect ratio

    bbu_cropped.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 216K
    GBU235.jpg
    1920 x 1080 - 231K
  • @LPowell and @mlysbakken .. thank you both .. understood .. not enough consideration before my reply

    Perhaps a better solution would be to produce a 1.5x squeeze, which throws away part of the image (an oversized element at some point?) ... projection would be wider than the sensor.

    I hope that is understandable .. I can visualise what the guts of a lens looks like but do not know correct terminology

  • @kavadni A 1.33x anamorphic adapter would produce a 2560x1080 aspect ratio that would not need to be cropped. However, the visual effect of a 1.33x anamorphic squeeze is relatively mild, and doesn't produce very pronounced oval bokeh or anamorphic flares. The most popular anamorphic lenses have a 1.5x ratio, and it's a good working compromise. In practice, the 5% that's cropped off the 1.5x left and right edges is optically very soft and the cropped image looks sharper without it.

  • @kavadni Read the many posts earlier in this thread about the characteristics of anamorphic bokeh. An anamorphic adapter is not just for stretch, it's also for adding a certain cinematic quality to the footage. The less stretch, the less pronounced these qualities will be.

  • I am curious as to why, some are advocating a lense that produces 2.66 (2880x1080) when widescreen televisions (per @LPowell) are ~2.4 (2560x1080).

    As we have the opportunity to have the lens designed, would it not be more logical to produce in camera the desired squeeze and not crop by 5% either side in post?

    Hit enter accidentally:

    I hear the arguments about corner resolution .. cropping to compensate for the 'inadequacy' of a lens? ... I do not think should be designed into the lens itself.

    Edit: Here is the latest on the new AA from 'Lenzes'r'Us' .. While some may think this is a clone of the SLRMagic AA, this lens has optics of a higher quality than the SLRMagic AA, and because it produces a perfect Widescreen image, the necessity to crop in post is removed .. I don;t think you really want to be competing with that.

  • @Xenocide38 A 4:3 aspect ratio is only needed for 2x anamorphic adapters. With a 1.5x adapter, a video camera with the standard 16:9 aspect ratio works fine. In post-production, you simply stretch the frame wider by 50%, and then crop 5% off the left and right edges. The result is a 2560x1080 video frame with square pixels in widescreen cinema format.

  • @RRRR To avoid vignetting, I believe. The wider the barrel of the adapter, the wider you can go with the taking lens.

  • @LPowell: why as wide as 72mm?

    Funny story, kholi. :)

  • @slrmagic I think I'd actually have to give my vote to 1.35x. I understand why people want 1.5x and 2x squeeze but more camera companies would have to get on board with 4:3 HD recording. 16:9 squeezed to 1.5 or 2 is too wide in my opinion and distracting unless displayed in a theater. People already have 1.5x and 2x anamorphics and yet most camera companies don't enable 4:3 recording.

    A 24mm, 35mm, and 50mm prime anamorphic set at f2.8 with a 1.35x squeeze and each lens priced at $1000 would be incredible. Hopes and dreams.

  • @kholi that's the way of life haha.

  • 1.5/6, that's my vote. It'll be the best compromise between look and cropping in post.

    @au8ust

    I bought an Isco 54 NIkon mounted lens five years ago, or six, back when I had a 35mm Adapter and was still relatively new.... for 300.00 from a lens seller on craigslist in downtown LA.

    IT was before anyone even knew about these things, so maybe longer than that. And, because I couldn't figure it out (diopter) I took it back to the guy.

    Boy what a mistake that wasy.

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