We can't truly know what would have happened. Also nothing promotes change more than when everyone feels the hurt as is some did some didn't not enough to make an out cry for change. Isn't that always how the masses are controlled make sure enough are happy to keep the status quo with a pinch of fear of what could have been to motivate them. Never the less it just backs up my theory if there to big to fail they represent a constant threat to the general well being of a Nation of the world. When it comes to corporations and the public good smaller is the new better.

Short or a revolution I think the average man is in trouble. During the bank crisis we should have looked to nature, As we now know it is sometimes better to let a forest burn as it leads to all sorts of new growth. We should have let the banks burn so to speak and got rid of the old growth that is stifling new growth in it's shadow. Also government needs to do it's job and that is not working for big business.

In my opinion if a company is to big to fail it is to big and government should break it up for the good and safety of it's people.

@brianluce

Bubbles are created by lack of government oversight

@Ebacherville

the market will discover the real price of real estate.. the reason for the real estate bubble was government programs to give credit to any breathing person.

Thing is that @Ebacherville share Austrian school point of view. @brianluce, you can get good book and look at the arguments they use.

@brianluce

It's cynical to say greed is at root of human nature.

I never said anything about "root of human nature". It is just part of human nature.

@luxis

The system implementation is faulty and not its principles

This is why someone think that simple solutions might work. Nope. System has defects at all levels, from core principles to implementation.

Well the market is little retarded i guess because it discovered them after the fact that everything is ruined. Credits are given by the banks not the governments. The greed of the banks created the bubble. Bank ceos still got paid well anyway. And as far as being ahead of the game...you know one day somebody will get ahead of you, just like that in a blink of an eye. Its plain statistics and the rule of your game. Stash that gold really well now ; )

Bubbles are created by lack of government oversight. Deregulation is widely cited as the main cause of the real estate bubble. Repeal of Glass Steagall was instrumental. As for governments causing monopolies, here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman_Antitrust_Act

@Ebacherville The system implementation is faulty and not its principles. Fix the holes in the system that allow this 3rd generation abuse of it, but don't punish people that DO need assistance. If somebody has been laid of work lately because of unjust "free"(?) market speculation and is about to be thrown on the street with his family, even after working for many years loyally for the same company,well there should be some social net to save this family and give them free medical assistance if needed.

And in times like this, governments should get involved as much and as powerful as possible to stop all this finacial speculation schemes and rumors economies! But it won't happen ever because they are puppets to the same corporation lobbies and interests. Democracy bullocks!

Here in EU we see the governments as the ones to break monopolies - look what happened to microsoft in Europe a few years back and what might happen to google predy soon.

Everyone has different understanding of "basic necessities".

I believe there still some universal principles on what is basic necessities, for example food, house, work, education, healthcare system. Basic cornerstones for societies. Some have them some don't , but they still exist as a basic necessities. At least my humble experience from 4 Continents so far.

How it is different from the human nature?

Vitaly, do think human nature is bad in its core?

And how you want to "take it out from the equation"?

Maybe by the only choice left - stop buy things we don't need. Corporations need markets. Disrupt the market of certain products and you would see change in their producers. There are no ethics involved in their decisions. If a certain product is not sold well, it is discontinued. so by making a smart choice, what is good and sustainable, education needed on the matter of course, what to buy and what not one directly influences corporations at least on the short run. So for example if there is a demand for solar panels, just to bring the topic again and there is a profit to be made of it, they will produce them.

With banks is a little more complex and vicious circle.

if you take out corporate greed from the equation

How it is different from the human nature? And how you want to "take it out from the equation"?

global competition can work for the benefit of people and everyone can have basic necessities.

Everyone has different understanding of "basic necessities".
And global competition always work, it just becomes more and more complicated.

@dtr so if you and me and the not so small network of people related to us and then to them etc, etc... would like to hold on to the EU we might as well influence its existence. at least this is the concept. Just like the buying habits. or we can just be as negative as possible and let it take its own logical course. for sure its easy to be negative and on the contrary it takes a lot courage and persistence to let good things happen. our micro environments influence the big picture - just like the pixels ; )

Unfortunately, there is a very big external push to destroy it. it become too powerful to soon and threatened the older deal brokers. this is what is bothering me. rating agencies decide which country is worth it and which no. oh, btw most of them are US based (just a coincidence of course)or at least very related to the US.

@dtr so you don't see anything positive about the EU for example the things i was referring to ?

as far as the choices you mentioned, i believe this is the ONLY real "democracy" at the moment. make a selection in your consuming habits - that is the real power to change anything since everything depends on this. for example reduce the use of your 3(!!!) family cars when possible and as a result the artificially inflated price of gas would go down pretty quickly if it is a global or at lest a bigger region trend. oh wait, maybe this will bring the end of the world which is very complex and domino like connected. well be it. otherwise is just a (scaremongering) chit chat over a coffee , beer or whatever is to your liking (of course made by your favorite multinational corporation that is!)

If the us is down, really down.
There will be a global coin. and they will call it credits.

The big question in that respect is whether humans can ever reach a global awareness that will make them act in respect of the entire planet, and not just their person/household/family/region/country. The notion of countries as independent units will have to change as well.

Quite typical point of view that are in line with previous solution. But this, second "solution", is ten folds more dangerous.

but it's going to take a lot more pain before we get there, eg. wars over natural resources.

Yep, but pain (read - hundreds of millions that are not required by global market), are necessary. :-) Quite peaceful POV, isn't it?

Despite mass media claims and education we live in highly competitive world. And for almost every country viable solutions include parts that are not viable for others.

Indeed. And in the European Union people even had the illusion that all countries can compete with each other and all be winners at the same time. How shortsighted.

The big question in that respect is whether humans can ever reach a global awareness that will make them act in respect of the entire planet, and not just their person/household/family/region/country. The notion of countries as independent units will have to change as well. One thing we can thank big business for is that they already started doing that for us ;)

I think we can reach that global awareness and respect but it's going to take a lot more pain before we get there, eg. wars over natural resources.