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SANITY 4 and 5.1
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  • balazerbalazer

    islanders66, you can pick up the ISO noise discussion in the other topic.

  • duartixduartix

    @RalphB said: " I discovered a way to create monster size I frames, while still keeping the bitrate low."

    Cool!!! So what's the trick? The scaling tables, Auto Quantizer or both?

  • islanders66islanders66

    I would suggest testing it with the ISO on the top row and see if that helps. Come to think of it I had some banding issues when using the ISO on the other rows. Not sure exactly what it was but haven't noticed anything like that since with a fast lens, top ISO and correct shutter.

  • AKEDAKED

    Well, film the same scene with the same settings first with Sanity 5 and then with the standard firmware and compare the clips. Then you know, if it is a Sanity or a GH2 problem.

  • bmcent1bmcent1

    Thanks for the link @balazer but I don't think my is the FPN discussed in that thread. Mine jumps all over the frame, is different thicknesses from frame to frame, and isn't in every frame in the clip. In some frames there is only one band, in others there are 2 or 3. It's very much like noise but instead of being individual noisy pixels it's full lines that are under exposed or have less red in them. In the thread you linked, they were referring mostly to a constant underexposed band which I didn't see in my clip yesterday.

    To me, it looks like it must be some sort of amp gain or read/scanning variation across the sensor. But I wondered if it had anything to do with Sanity because I wondered if the codec or tables (don't know how all that works) would introduce this look if there was a very high or low reading in a line that had very little detail because most or all of the line is out of focus and shadow. In one of the images I posted the band seemed to line up with the detail on the spider's leg. But maybe that was just a coincidence.

  • islanders66islanders66

    @blazer.. how is it not correct? Arent the ISO on the top row all clean if you avoid the bug?

    " ISO 640 is a bit less noisy than ISO 500 if you're stepping down from 800 (avoiding the ISO bug), and a little bit noisier than 800 if you're stepping up from 500 (invoking the ISO bug). But ISO 640 is less noisy than 1000 and more noisy than 400, no matter what."

    So you are saying that for some reason 400 is also a sweet spot? But that doesn't mean you want to avoid all the ISO on the top row as a short cut to avoid the bug, as this was the context I was responding to. In fact you want to use ones on the top row because they are all clean. I can't remember exactly why, and my source could be inacurate for GH2 as blazer claims, but as I recall it had something to do with the number of pixels that translates into an even distribution for these increments, which is why they are on the top row?

    I would like to know why this doesn't apply to the GH2? If it is too complicated for someone to use the top row, how will they be able to remember exactly which other single ISO is ok while avoiding others on the same row? For me and my workflow it's easy to just use the top row and avoid the ISO bug.

    I haven't noticed any banding issues after I got a fast lens and use double the correct framerate.

    I notice lots of noise with a slow lens.

    These are just my observations.

  • balazerbalazer

    bmcent1, this is the infamous GH2 dark band that happens at high ISOs and apparently also with ETC mode. http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/693/gh2-showing-fixed-darker-bandstripe-20-pixels-high-across-footage/p1 The problem is minimized by using a longer exposure time.

    islanders66, your advice about ISOs is not correct for the GH2. It's more complicated and subtle than that. http://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2078/gh2-iso-noise-tests.-lows-mids-highs.-magic-iso-#Item_13

  • islanders66islanders66

    @peternap, yes to avoid ISO bug navigate with middle numbers from highest to lowest then go up to the top row. I just attended a workshop with DP for SNL and he explained the importance of using the increments of 160, 320, 640 etc. Kind of like using double the frame rate for shutter speed.

  • peternappeternap

    @Ralph_B That's interesting about the dark band I wonder if that's what I've taken as Vignetting in some of my lenses.

    @islanders66 I thought the middle numbers were the quick way around the ISO bug?

  • bmcent1bmcent1

    Yes @Ralph_B, that's what I was referring too. In a way, sorry to hear it's the GH2 and not the settings ;) I know the scene was darker due to my aperture, but I was outside, middle of the day, in shade. I guess the only way to avoid those darker horizontal likes is to make a better exposure then darken in post if desired?

    Funny, it he is mean looking, but it's mega magnification with the 150mm and ETC crop ... he's actually smaller than the lead point of a pencil and easy to miss with the naked eye!

    Thank you islander, I will stick to those then!

  • islanders66islanders66

    bmcent1 it's best to use ISO increments at the top, 160, 320, 640, etc.. so 200 ISO would be worse than 32O.

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    @bmcent1 When you say banding, I assume you're refering to the dark horizontal bands. This has nothing to do with Sanity. This is typical of the GH2. It does this under certain conditions. You'll even see it in the uncompressed HDMI output. BTW, that's a mean looking mother...

  • bmcent1bmcent1

    Yeah, I'm pretty new to video and particularly to the GH2 so I don't know exactly what to expect, but it did surprise me. The brighter exposed shots looked really nice, but as soon as I closed the aperture down, the banding (if that's the right term) was pretty clear.

  • peternappeternap

    @bmcent1 Thanks for posting. That isn't the least bit subtle, is it? I haven't seen that on 5 yet but haven't taken anything with that dark a background either.

  • bmcent1bmcent1

    @peternap, sorry for the delay, I posted and then headed out. Here are three frame grabs saved out from Premier Pro as PNG files:

    http://www.bscottphoto.com/temp/1080%20ETC%20200%20ISO%20Sigma%20150-2_8.png

    http://www.bscottphoto.com/temp/band2.png

    http://www.bscottphoto.com/temp/band3.png

    I was in ETC mode and HBR mode for these with ISO 200. I wanted the shot to be a little on the dark side and that's where the banding jumped out at me. I have other brighter exposed shots that looked really nice.

  • ImaginateImaginate

    @peternap @tcarretti Thanks, it was all shot with with the Standard Profile -2-2-2-2 with the 20mm Lumix , The opening shot of him on his bike I was trying to go for more of a low contrast type look to it when I was grading the rest of the shots were done in LOOKS some of the standard presets that they have in there.

  • peternappeternap

    @bmcent1 Yes, please post a frame grab. It's always easier for me to gauge.

  • jherojhero

    Can you try ISO 400 or above?

  • bmcent1bmcent1

    Tried Sanity 5 today. Pretty bad banding in dark tones at ISO 200. I tried going up to 250 and back but it didn't make a difference. I was shooting a little spider in a barberry bush outside using a Sigma 150mm/2.8 lens with adapter, I closed the aperture a bit because the spider was getting some light. The defocused background (by DOF) in the bush which was darker had a lot of banding to my eye. I'd be happy to post a video of frame grab if it's helpful. I'm new here so if that is needed, please point me to any instructions on how to do that.

    EDIT: Oops! When looking at the clip again, I realized I was in ETC mode, so if that performs almost 3 stops worse then I guess I shouldn't be surprised by banding (ISO 200 + 2.66 stops = ISO 1250.)

    Ralph_B, I'm still trying to grok this camera. Can you tell me if this is right for your patch? For NTSC, if I use creative movie mode then: 1) manual movie mode is whatever you pick from REC MODE (1080i/60 or 720p/60) and if 720p then H or L based on which you choose from REQ QUALITY; 2) HBR is always 1080i/60 (which is actually 1080p/30 in a 60i transport); 3) Cinema is always 24p (you can choose H or L from REQ Quality or Q Menu); 4) VMM can be 30fps if you choose 80%, it is recorded as 24p but you can speed it back up to 30p in Premier Pro.

    Does Sanity perform better at 80% VMM than HBR if sound is not needed?

  • jherojhero

    Thanks guys, I'll run some tests Wednesday :) I used Sanity 4.1 on a recent interview shoot last week and it looks great so it'll be nice to see how 5 stacks up (at longer record times!)

  • AKEDAKED

    @ jhero:

    16 GB card, Sanity 5, PAL GH2:

    MJPEG QVGA: 60 Min VGA: 21:45 Min WVGA: 20:55 Min HD: 8:20 Min

    720/50p H: 64 Min. SH: 47 Min.

    1080/50i FH: 64 Min FSH: 47 Min

    25p HBR: 47 Min

    24p 24L: 69 Min 24H: 54 Min

    I hope that helps.

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    @smontoto H mode is the lower bitrate setting for 720p.

    @jhero You will get 53 minutes on a 16GB card in 24H mode.

  • tcarrettitcarretti

    @Imaginate

    That footage looks fantastic. Great look! What lens and picture profile?

  • jherojhero

    Can anyone tell me how much time is now left on the card (any card but I have a 16GB) with Sanity 5? (24H)

  • smontotosmontoto

    "Spanning works with 24L, FH, SH & H modes." H as in HBR or 24H?

    Since the Bitrate is now lowered to 38M, I was just curious as to what makes a mode span or not.

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