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Official Low GOP topic, series 5
  • 751 Replies sorted by
  • Updated my settings. with the external encoder settings from @bkmcd
    Its more in a line now for 720, hbr and 24p.
    Its a almost constant bitrate.
    I did try a vbr setting the way @driftwood suggested, but i did not like the image when there is low detail, its getting blurred, and gray colors are smudged. and whit fast panning the focus seems to be slower...

    But why is the first i frame so high?.
    I use the sedna A matrix for 720 and 24p mode, hbr/50i is in Mysteron matrix.
    i did try the experimental matrix from @driftwood, but the bitrate drops dramacticly to around 12 to 17mb, but the image still did look impresive.

    720 pal 00000_Frames.PNG
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    HBR 00001_Frames.PNG
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    24p 00002_Frames.PNG
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  • @mozes

    Why bother with P and B frames? If all the frames are the same size you'll get better results with just I frames.

  • @Towi, Installing now SPAN50-v1.1 for an hour long interview tomorrow using HBR25p. I aded Pasadena Pulse V2. Will let you know how it went. FIlming outdoors in a garden and using Sandisk 32Gb 30MB/s. Thank you, PAL land was in need of this.

  • @eyefi

    Does "Pasadena Pulse V2" add overall bitrate? If so, I'm not sure the settings will span ...

  • "Pasadena Pulse V2" Does not add overall bitrate. I added to span50 v1 and it spans

  • cool - thanks! :-)

  • @all

    I have to correct a wrong thing I said about @balazer 's Cake setting: since version 2.0 spanning works on SanDisk Extreme Class 10 cards (not only on 95mb/s ones as I've previously stated).

    Info here: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2123/gh2-cake-v2.1-reliability-and-spanning-in-720p-hbr-24p-and-vmm-at-2-2.5x-stock-bit-rates

  • @cbrandin 12:28AM @mozes Why bother with P and B frames? If all the frames are the same size you'll get better results with just I frames.

    you are right, but it is more stable...

    I am testing gop 1 now...

  • Oké, just used gop 1 for all modes.
    Images looks good, but sony vegas have problems with it. (really weird)
    VLC player works fine with the files, windows media player is jumpy/jurky..

    24p 00003_Frames.PNG
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    720 00000_Frames.PNG
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    1080 00002_Frames.PNG
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    HBR-00003.png
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  • @towi

    Since I had combined SednaAQ1C with GOLGOP3-13 for my friends, I am not looking at your new setting in detail. However, looks nice for me! :-) Although I am busy now, I touch NTSC, if time is made.

    @ someone who loves "Sedna" :-)

    I release "GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C" setting.

    Of course, this is also the setting focused on image quality with LARGE I-FRAME SIZE except 60p and 50p.

    And, I am also focusing to stability.

    Please refer to here to combine @thepalalias's "Pasadena_Pulse_Audio_V2_Beta2" http://perlichtman.com/pasdenapulse/wordpress/2012/03/14/panasonic-gh2-audio-settings-file-pasadena-pulse-audio-v2-beta-2/

    Please try it.

    Special thanks to @driftwood! :-)

    UPDATE(2012.Apr.12th): http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/54878#Comment_54878

    SednaAQ1A Version: http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/53563#Comment_53563

    NOTE:

    *It has not fully been verified yet.

    *Although bit rate setups are quite high, the bit rate which actually appears are lower than these. Since the actual bit rate changes by the object to shoot, please confirm by yourself.

    *24H mode is high quality 3GOP setting with mega size I-frame.

    *24L mode is for 24p80%(30p).

    *In camera playback is available in 24p. In other mode, Sometimes available.(Not tested yet, but probably)

    *EX Tele works.(Not tested yet, but probably)

    *Spanning in 24H, 24L, maybe in FSH, HBR, and SH with SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC Card.(Not tested yet, but probably)

    bkmcwd GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C.zip
    916B
    GOLGOP3-13_SednaC_24p_ISO160_forest_sp_qp.JPG
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    GOLGOP3-13_SednaC_24p_ISO800_night_sp_qp.JPG
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    GOLGOP3-13_SednaC_HBR30p_ISO800_night_sp_qp.JPG
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  • @bkmcwd that looks just like the patch I was after - 3GOP and Sedna C :) Is there a download link?

  • Re: GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C/HBR30P...and a bit off topic.

    Question: Regarding HBR30p wrapped as 60i. I have noticed that regardless of the hack or native GH2 FW HBR30p always seems softer than Cinema 24P. Yesterday I was testing out GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C in 24P and HBR30P (see screen grabs) and noticed subtle 'interlace' artifacts (look carefully at the 'grass' which was blowing in the breeze). I viewed the clip in MPC-HC and WMP the artifacts persisted. I then 'deinterlaced' it via TMPGEnc 4.0 and output it as an HQ 'Bluray' file. It almost doubled in size however it no longer displayed interlace artifacts. I just re-shot the clips for these screen grabs and StreamParser analysis and note that 24P is a bit larger than 2x the size on the HBR30P clip. Hmmmm..what's going on here...

    So my question is: Does anyone recommend a player that can display a 'native' HBR30P file as noninterlaced?

    24p cinema.png
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    30p hbr.png
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  • Forgot video screen grabs...

    GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C-Cinama 24P.png
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    GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C-HBR30P.png
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  • @towi Took you Span50HQ1_1 v1_1 out for a spin on my dashboard when running an errand this am. Used Sedna B on my second camera to compare to Sedna B intra. I've attached the charts for span50. Is the 2nd chart what you expect? I may not know how to read stream parser correctly, but checking some of my other gop3 files, I don't see as much difference between time frames. Although I haven't had a chance to really shoot much, so far looks pretty good. I'll not make any definitive statement till I get some more time and samples to look at. Hoping I can shoot a little more today. Thanks for your efforts.

    span50v1_1framemode24h.jpg
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    span50v1_1timemode24h.jpg
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  • @Bonzai

    I don't want to spoil the party of GOLGOP & Sedna matrix lovers ... but in my book bkmcwd's patches work MUCH better in HBR mode (likewise in FSH mode) without any custom matrix applied. Things look different at 24H... but HBR clearly looks much better in these particular patches with the stock matrix (so in bkmcwd's orginal patches).

  • please do NOT use these settings


    SPAN50_V12_PAL_24H_Frames.PNG
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    SPAN50_V12_PAL_HBR_Frames.PNG
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    SPAN50_V12_PAL_FSH_Frames.PNG
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    SPAN50_V12_PAL_SH_Frames.PNG
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    SPAN50_V12_NTSC_HBR_Frames.PNG
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    SPAN50_V12_NTSC_FSH_Frames.PNG
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    SPAN50_V12_NTSC_SH_Frames.PNG
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    SPAN50_HQ_V1.2.zip
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  • @ChainsawFilms

    "Is there a download link?"

    The zip file is also stuck on my comment on which sample is stuck. Is it something another?

  • @Bonzai

    Thanks always! :-)

    "interlace artifacts"

    I also sometimes look at it with various settings. I do not know whether this is peculiar to HBR, or whether it is the result of GOP3 or something.

    @towi

    How do you think?

  • @towi

    "Things look different at 24H... but HBR clearly looks much better in these particular patches with the stock matrix (so in bkmcwd's orginal patches)."

    Since I do not understand the matrix, I am not sure in detail, but it may be that the matrix which specialized in 3GOP should be made...

    I also think that 24p has good affinity with custom matrix as you said.

    There may be many people who have misunderstanding since my explanation is insufficient.

    I think that my 3GOP settings which can be used with sufficient balance not only in 24p but in all the modes are natural_v2.1, GOP3ZILLA_V2.11, and GOLGOP3-13_V4.12. http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/42201#Comment_42201

    BTW, your new works are excellent! I have no room and touch, I feel. :-)

  • bkmcwd The HBR30p interlace issue doesn't appear to be specific to any particular patch - in fact I can duplicate it with the stock GH2 V1.1 firmware.

    I've always thought that something wasn't quite right with HBR30p. A few weeks back I noted very subtle interlace artifacts in a clip containing video of a section of very narrow side trim on an automobile. This occured while panning but no evidence of it when holding the camera still.

    The example I posted with GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C-HBR30P also makes them visible but again not easy to see when holding steady - in this case the narrow leaves were being blown in the breeze demonstrates the artifacts. None what soever with Cinema 24p.

    I performed that test with GOLGOP3-13_SednaAQ1C, Mysterion and stock V1.1 (after formatting the card, rolling back to 1.0 and updating to V1.1) and the 'interlace' artifacts persisted. It is very subtle - it takes a trained eye to identify the issue. Nonetheless I believe this contributes to the soft look of HBR30p. I can re-encode the 60i wrapped file as 30p and all is well although the file size almost doubles.

    Bottom-line: I would like to find a consumer video player that will play back a native HBR30p as 30p and not 60i.

  • @Bonzai

    "The HBR30p interlace issue doesn't appear to be specific to any particular patch - in fact I can duplicate it with the stock GH2 V1.1 firmware."

    Thanks for info, Bob! :-)

    If I use real 30p, I will think that 24p80% should be used. It is possible to use 80% with 24L at "GOLGOP3-13". In "natural" and "GOP3ZILLA", 80% in 24H is also available. Of course, there is no sound.

    I understood about one of the reasons the people of PAL are suffering troubles.

    It is unavoidable supposing this is the specification of GH2.

  • I'm in NTSC land like yourself. The 30p output provided in V1.1 was a huge gift to me as it is far smoother with the occasional pan than Cinema 24p. It also makes file handling simpler in NTSC land than 24p. I'm trying to figure out what may be causing the HBR30p files to display as interlaced in common video players. I do a lot of splicing and transitions along with 'stills' derived from screen captures but rarely perform any real 'post' processing. I would like to keep it that way.

    I DL'ed the ..hbr30p_night_sample...M2T original file from Vimeo and looked at the 'pink bow' rather closely (see screen grab crop #1). Then re-encoded it as a progressive 29.97 Bluray .mpg via TMPGEnc V4 and cropped the pink bow again (see screen grab crop #2). #1 looks interlaced while #2 appears progressive. Anyone have any ideas what might be going on here?

    #1 HBR30p Night Sample crop.png
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    #2 HBR30p Night Sample encode 29.97crop.png
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  • @Bonzai

    I got it. Your screen grab shows the very interesting result. Since I used only 24p, I came to touch FSH, HBR, and SH recently. I have still more many things which are not known.

    Thanks! :-)

  • @towi "but in my book bkmcwd's patches work MUCH better in HBR mode (likewise in FSH mode) without any custom matrix applied. Things look different at 24H"

    But not different enough for me, currently I don't think using a custom matrix on GOLGOP3 gives any real benefit over ther stock matrix (even in 24H). As @bkmcwd says maybe a matrix specific to GOP3 would give more improvements. As it goes I'm using GOLGOP3-13_V4.12 as my default setting, I'm more than happy with it. I did try the new version with Sedna A yesterday but I didn't see any real benefit to it. I should probably test it under more different conditions though. B frames are definitely fatter with that matrix, but it doesn't seem to be visibly beneficial. When I Initially tested it with the first version with the matrix I got the impression that the overall rendition was better than the stock matrix with GOLGOP, but now I've had the time to really push footage around I'm not convinced. But I will do more tests on the Sedna A version. @bkmcwd How do you feel the Sedna C version looks ?

  • Latest intra settings are amazing, but i have found many times a kind of shutter effect in fast pan or in fast vertical movment. Am i just imagining things or is it true, and if it is dose longer GOP help ? And what settings do you recomend ?