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Driftwood Quantum X Settings, Series 1: v3b Rocket - v4b Orion - v5 β Pictoris
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  • proaudio4proaudio4

    Good point Nick... At this time with more testing needed, the sharpness control and it's affect on the new matrix control is yet to be determined.

    Sharpness controls dependent on frequency set and other factors, will also enhance (in a bad way..) noise levels. We can take a relatively high ISO test and watch its affect on noise at the different GH2 sharpening levels.

  • itimjimitimjim

    This is a large break through @driftwood

  • itimjimitimjim

    That's still 100x quicker. There will be a point of diminishing returns. What that is, I have no idea currently. I'd personally have the unsharpened version too.

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @kavadni Its defo on the encode. Test and make comparisons leaving it off, and then +1 at a time... if it works for you great, if it doesn't, then fine. I am not advocating to anyone on the sharpeness matter. But we now have choice.

  • kavadnikavadni

    @driftwood and others.

    Regarding sharpening and noise reduction .. I would have thought that anything the camera can do in 1/50 second .. my computer can do better in 2 seconds.

    Is this a sound philosphy .. or is noise/sharpening happening at some point in the record/encode .. that makes it beneficial to use in the camera?

    Kevin

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @cosimo_bullo How sharpeness works in our GH2 profiles is probably down to some further factor placed on the Quantization Matrix and its scalers (enhancing the high-frequency characteristics by +- a sort of add 'n' to 'x' factor). However, it could very well be artificial... again only testing can tell.

    Perhaps we should call this matrix, the 'DW_Log' !!! ;-)

  • itscehrisitscehris

    Wow. I'm new to this and I have a huge headache. There's so much info to read and I have no time to sit and read them all, I'm more of a visual learner. Anyways I just bought a Lumix GF-2 Yesterday for the sole purpose of shooting videos and doing a little bit of photography. This is my first Camera ever, and I want to get the best quality possible. I have the 14-42mm Lens right now, and I have shot a few videos and the quality is ok but I have seen better quality footages on vimeo and youtube. For example

    This video was shot with a GF-1 20mm

    That's the quality I'm aiming for. Is there any video that shows you how to hack the GF-2? And from the info I've just given how can I achieve that sharp crisp non-blurry GH2 look on my GF-2? What hack would you guys recommend for my new camera. I'm new to this so if you can dumb it down for me. I would appreciate it. Inbox to help me out would be appreciated it as well Thanks

  • blackspotblackspot

    Yet another realworld test. :)

    GH2, Quantum (Orion v4 rocks!) Panny Stock lens 14-42mm Smooth ALL -2, 5dtorgb 422HQ ProRes, Premiere, AE5 for CC (Color Finesse) 24H speeded up to 25p & 720p 60p slowed down to 25p & ETC mode (1080p&720p) intercut together. applied 0.5px Fast Blur to 1080p to match sharpness with 720p footage. (720p with ETC mode is bit too blurry and noisy imho.) Maybe too complex CC = noise penalty :/ should have kept it more simple. ps. In this case, I think i like YouTube compression supressing noise ;)

  • cosimo_bullocosimo_bullo

    One thing I'm seeing in Stray's tests is that the sharpening on +2 seems to improve the quality of the grain in the shadows. This is great, but I don't understand why it would have such an effect.

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @proaudio4 There's a point where banding kicks in, my matrix is based on the official AVC-INTRA matrix and scaled, I conducted a number of tests particularly on skies, and settled for what is now the Matrix in Orion and Rocket. The AVC Intra matrix is a little softer than Panny's overtly sharpe GF/H 2 Lumix matrix, but is probably for good reason based on Panasonic's research built for the 10 bit AVC profiles. We are 8 bit, performing tricks to improve what we can out of the colour range. But with this matrix, sharpeness can be utilised in-camera now, whereas before, as you know, it was always best to leave it at -2. Orion at least, gives you choice.

    I'm now conducting strong tests with deblocking loop filtering to see if it is better that we turn it off (or settle on low values) which work well with Intra.

  • proaudio4proaudio4

    @stray > Always offer a good read! Thanks man -glad to see you're back! Stray, how would you compare fine detail grain rendered from Orion V4b, compared to 9b?

    @driftwood I'm a bit confused regarding the sharpness control and how it may be behaving a bit different with the new matrix used in Orion.

    As we all know the term sharpening really has nothing to do with increasing detail itself. Information is added to the image to increase contrast edges so the image is perceived as sharper. Ideally, we want this control to have an OFF position and only maybe use it to bring edges back to material that needs recovering (usually done in post).

    I'm hearing from many here, now including Stray regarding that the new 24H matrix (Orion), does appear a bit softer. Like many here, I'd rather stay away from using or increasing the sharpness control (for the reasons above)

    I'm all for staying with Orion as long as it proves to offer the best rendering (least macroblocking while maintaining fine detail) of image regardless exposure and motion.

    I really don't understand the details in the new matrix (scaling) used with Vitaliy's new software control v3.64d, but I hope you can find the sweet spot between image detail loss (an assumption that the matrix is causing detail loss-which would mean softer image?) and the new matrix benefits?

    While working with the new matrix settings, are you trying to find the sweep spot to minimize banding and maintain the highest image detail?

    I must admit, Orion certainly is at the top of your work!

  • cinemoncinemon

    @driftwood and for quality only at 24p? and 50p?

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @sohus I agree for best quality on all settings - Orion can't be beaten... at the moment... :-)

  • BraamokievBraamokiev

    And the Winner is Quantum Orion V4B by (Drifwood) And The King Vitaly Kiselev.

    Thanks for your works Guys!!

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @davidhjlindberg Glad youre now sorted. It just goes to show, if in doubt, do a COMPLETELY fresh install of ptools, panasonic firmware, redownload Driftwood settings, all into a new folder and it should work fine. Nice screen grabs from Quantums :-)

    @all Look at david's images. Notice how you can now up the sharpeness and contrast on picture profiles with my matrix! :-)

  • sohussohus

    I think I am going to settle on Orion 24H and 24L for interviews. I see a lot of macroblocking in the Rocket V3 footage. The thing with these VBR settings is that you never know what you get. Some shots might turn out perfect, others might be horrible. With the CBR settings, you have more reliability at the expense of card space. The Rocket V3 footage I shot maxed out at around 350k i frames while Orion is at 780k constantly.

  • x_worpig_xx_worpig_x

    @davidhjlindberg That looks amazing man, good stuff.

  • davidhjlindbergdavidhjlindberg

    @Braamokiev Thanks. In this test I just simply added the native files into Premiere and started grading with Colorista 2 and finally added Sharpen.

  • BraamokievBraamokiev

    @davidhjlindberg

    Good job man / Your Workdlow?

  • davidhjlindbergdavidhjlindberg

    @driftwood Really weird. I just deleted all patch files including ptool and reinstalled it. Now everything works fine, even 720p.

    Here's two stills from a test I shot today, ungraded/graded. Nostalgic -2+2+2-1 24p

    Sequence 06_1.jpg
    1920 x 1280 - 899K
    Sequence 06.jpg
    1920 x 1280 - 1M
  • JspatzJspatz

    I am at the point where I am trying to choose a standard from between Orion and Rocket. If I choose Orion, I will shoot interviews and synced audio at 24l, to insure the full ability to playback in the camera, on location. I may shoot b-roll at 24h to squeeze maximum quality out. If I decide to go with rocket, I can keep it on 24H all the time. I don't care about storage limitations. I would be interested to hear from those who have formed an opinion, as to the quality differences, specifically comparing Orion 24L to Rocket 24H. Thanks

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @JanNowak I'd be interested in your reports on 720p50 Intra cus Im dithering over including that again. So TOTALLY stress it out.

  • targoszstock+targoszstock

    @driftwood I didn't change any settings and I am pretty sure i followed every instruction. I asked you because I didn't know if 24L stream parser readout with this higher bitrate at beginning is normal or not. If it is normal, I'll do nothing. If it isn't I'll re read the instructions and re patch my camera.

    As for seaquake 720p, now I now to stress 720 50p as much as possible and if it fails to go for a different patch.

    Thank you for your help : )

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @ricker Orion is based on 9b rematrixed. Understand the clear differences - Orion is heading much more towards extending the possibilities of the new firmware. If you want to omit the scaling tables from Orion youre essentially back to 9b on 24p!!!! Sage's stuff is just pushing my settings to further extremes but will hang at some point. I could offer a setting which goes well above these but what's the point if you want low recording duration ? Its NOT heaps better.

  • rickerricker

    Update, after double checking, the dead pixel line is definetly there even in the v9b stuff but only at 1080.

    At 720 its not there. Wondering if there is a dead pixel line on the sensor?

    Is that possible?

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