@VK "Idea to mimick big studios on lower level with inappropriate crew.
Idea to use same main script ideas, etc.
You can find much more interesting and specific idea, as your film can be aimed to small and specific audience.
Big guys can't do this, as it means instant cut in their income."

I wrote a thread about this on another forum an people got really offended.

People who aren't creative and innovative love to mimic the "professional" work flow, because in the end, they really don't have a vision and use "the industry" as a crutch and scapegoat.

These days we finally have the opportunity to merge jobs into what they should be and move production models forward... but everyone is stuck with the "that's how THEY do it" mentality. It's so stupid. The idea that the director, cinematographer, and editor are all different people on films blows my mind. There's just no way you should be directing if you do not understand cinematography and editing first. You're then, basically, just "opinion" giving. Which is sadly what most modern directing is. Given enough time, the director should be able to do everything on set... you hire a DP to save time, not to make your film look good. If you can't make a film look good on your own... you don't deserve it to.

Those who can't create... imitate. It's the catalyst of the industry "obsession".


I've been on a shoot in hollywood-land where I've actually heard a director say "I like having a DP, because I can just blame them if it doesn't look good."

This is the epitome of hollywood. It's all a big game of people hiring other people to blame when something fails. The last thing on people's mind is making something original.

>Miniaturize it, camouflage it, reimagine it, but abandon the master narratives?

Yep. Abandon and bury them deep.
As you need to move from the animal side to the human side.
And "saving the princess, the incredible journey" is all about animal side of things.

Can you tell me story of inventor who worked 5 years on new thing, solved hundreds of problems in the way?
Yes, you can. But it require differen skill.
And no, big guys can't do this, as big crowds won't look at this.

@brianluce

Yeah, heroes journey is ingrained in our every day existence, trying to escape it is trying to make something that is alien to you, and will be alien to most people. Even esoteric experiments like RUBBER fall into this convention eventually.

Maybe that's why I find it hard to find the special stuff. I don't want to see things that try to be smart, or try to look good. I want to see something that is smart and looks good because of it, if you understand what I mean.

Of course, target is the most important for anything. Though the number one target audience is most always oneself (this does not mean to dismiss the audience). Because people have certain personal things to tell, certain ways of seeing the world. I hope. Best is to focus on something specific to you, and really hone in on it. That's a craft, to have that one thing that defines you, and repeat it in different ways.

i think that the direction of intimate, small stories, when you WANT to have organic look, not a hollywood look, but more rough, 70's small movies (think of Nicholas Roeg?)
the GH2 and dslr are a very good and exact target.

@kholi

What I am telling is far more extreme.
I am talking about another wrong trend.
Idea to mimick big studios on lower level with inappropriate crew.
Idea to use same main script ideas, etc.
You can find much more interesting and specific idea, as your film can be aimed to small and specific audience.
Big guys can't do this, as it means instant cut in their income.
Other bad things is that huge number of people who just want to shoot their family in an interesting way, shoot their collegues, make small advertisment for their own firm read all this and are afraid to ask.
Because fucking "professionals" have such a great new ideas about Romeo and Julien each time.

For those who do not understand what VK is getting at:

He is saying to please stop trying to be Hollywood, and to find interesting ways to tell stories that do not necessarily immediately speak of the cliches that these larger (and small-larger) tentpoles exploit. For instance, the basic girl/boy love plot.

Part of your teaching when you begin to write is that sub-plots or main plots of a love interest are important to stories because it helps to round characters out, shows another dimension to them. I have grown to HATE the instant inclusion of a love plot between a male and a female that is not earned or warranted, and most of the time it's the most thin part of the plot of all.

However, there are movies that focus only on this plot that work on a deeper level. I have not seen LIKE CRAZY (the 7D feature film that sold for millions at sundance) but apparently, it is one of those movies that explores first love and how painful and beautiful it is at the same time.


Overused and overcooked plots like saving the princess, so on and so forth, or finding the special item. That's what he's referring to.

As no name, no budget filmmakers, we have the advantage to tell different kinds of stories to get noticed AND do the more traditional "wanna-be" hollywood affair. He's asking you to take advantage of your freedom and try something new.

I don't find much wrong with doing Genre pictures, and we all have preferences, I only encourage people to try and do better with whatever they are creating, be it cliche horror, cliche love, etc. At least try to do it very well. And if you want to go outside of the box, at least try to do that well. Me, personally, I do not want to make a sleepy movie in my current state of career, mostly because I am very young and I am not versed enough in life to do it successfully. I like genre pictures, I want to do that to build my career, make some money doing what I love to do and not having to result to a second or third job to feed my addiction. So, yeah, I will make the movies that VK is saying are crap right now, but try to be a little different in various ways.

My favorite movie, number one on the list, is Ghostbusters. Mainstream, Super mainstream.

My second favorite movie, number two on the list, is Primer. Far from mainstream, far from easily understandable, but outright freakin' incredible.

Movies are for a wide variety of people.

And for the concept that every movie is derivative: so is art. Art imitates life, we all share similar experiences and have similar dreams. Nothing is new under the sun and can always be traced back to something similar. That's fine, it's not about re-inventing the wheel but present it in a different light if possible.

Cinema can do a lot of things for people, but no matter what it is always basically a means of escapism for a temporary amount of time.

@tmcat

be careful not finding yourself in GH3 period ;)

@alcomposer

I used the driftwood hacks for far too long before I realized that my computing equipment couldn't possibly keep up with them. I am a perfect example of what you're talking about.

However, now, I've taken it to the opposite extreme. Even after buying a newer, much faster computer, I still won't be using driftwoods intra hacks until I have a 3 or 4 tera raid setup, an adequate render farm and a second cam, oh and i almost forgot, an actual production. It took me awhile to realize that 44mb/s works for me.

@Vitaliy_Kiselev >So, you generally ask them to stop making that they like and brings them money and switch to something you need and that won't bring any money.

No. My point was, a site like this or other sites is full with people (pro or non-pro) sharing their patches and gear or problems, but few examples are given of real works. What have they been up to with these patches and gear? If somebody can show me real good things, I'd be happy. Sometimes Vimeo is good, but also many times not. I always have the feeling I'm missing some of the creativity. I get it, people who are great in their art, don't share, they just create. It's also like open source. It never really works, because it produces no real solutions. Me, I'm no filmer. I'm a film enthusiast that only studied film. I'm into writing, not shooting. But I'm interested in the creative side of people.

I'm gonna defend hi bitrates or 'super bitrates' as people refer to them for one single reason only; INTRA requires it to work correctly for high i frames. Low bitrate INTRA equals crap Quantisation in real terms on the GH2. Simple as that. People seem to think that the super bitrates are there because it looks good as a number. Wrong. Personally, Ive been constantly looking at how low I can adjust the bitrate down before the metrics change to shit.

Yep, its human nature to strive for better 'designs', 'machines', 'aesthetic'. The outsider may often find themself in the middle of the crowd and invariably they can't stop themselves from communicating an alternative until it itself is not.

Nothing is original that originates from nothing pardon the paradigm.

Anyone who's worked professionally in a field (like I did in sound, for what seemed like hundreds of years) will know that there are a million different problems that crop up, and solving them is part of learning. I'm sure others who work in other fields will have the same thoughts - that you can't really easily set out "how to..." because there are so many different, unique, crazy, or urgent things to sort during the course of a day, and you learn by doing that, and it takes a lifetime. I don't think my experience would be any use to anyone else unless I was telling them how to solve a specific problem that I'd solved earlier. But that's not about me helping someone learn, it's about me telling them what to do to solve a specific issue, which isn't quite the same thing.

I was interested that someone was saying on this forum that "courses" are no good - can't remember who - but if you have the right teachers it's great and very different from having a huge expertise in the craft. The reason I say this is that "expertise" is not enough - because that's all about the expert. It's the ability to actually teach the stuff in a way that allows other people to succeed and do well (which is I think @Vitaliy what you're saying about not knowing what other people want). Same in music - you get musicians who do "masterclasses" and all it does is allow them to show off how they solved a problem for themselves, it doesn't actually "teach" anything that anyone else can usefully apply to their own work. So probably a bit like your last point - even if you know your craft, that doesn't mean you can provide what other people really need, because that isn't the same thing.

Difficult to explain though so I hope I've understood right. I would love to know more about how to make an interesting visual sequence that people want to look at and stay watching! Or even...where to start!