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Choosing mikes for vocal and voiceovers
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  • Yeah I know Gearslutz and Oktavamod pretty well. Over the years I watched the guy from Oktavamod question and learn from everyone at Gearslutz and GroupDIY and then turn around and make a business out of it.

    In any case, I agree that shootouts are useless. They are fun, but very useless. Listening to a couple mics on a single source without being in the mix is senseless. I used to believe that whole "200$ mic as good as a 5000$" mic stuff, but I can say that once you actually start doing heavy work, that yes, the cheap mic can get you 90% there, but that last 10% is what makes it "work". I've tried all of the "cheap mics of the hour" and some actually do sound better than an expensive mic on a single source, without being in a mix.. Once you put them in the mix, they fall apart. Most people can't wrap their heads around that tidbit of info, that sometimes the best sounding thing sounds terrible in the mix and sometimes the most terrible sounding thing sounds great in the mix.
  • Why? I know the outcome already. Take a look at gearslutz and you'll find zounds of shootouts
    The differences between some very good 200$ or 500$ mics and a legendary 5000$ mic are minimal.
    Interesting link i found for mic upgrades : http://www.oktavamod.com
  • I can do the same as well if everybody wants more tests like this.
  • If I have time I will record the same mic on three preamps and people can see if they can pick the $1500 or the $200 one or the tweener. Maybe after New Years.
  • I guess my attitude about mics is the same as cameras and lenses. Above a certain baseline level of quality, differences in hardware are swamped by positional decisions and artistic talent. There are whole industries supported by big name producers/mic wankers going on and on about magical qualities possessed by certain mics except when you actually go listen to the work said wankers produce it sounds like 8-bit Atari soundtrack while the disinterested local Dallas TV engineer in the mid-60s who simply kicked a cheap dynamic mic in front of Freddie King's offstage amp got a sound that even over 3" TV speakers makes the hair on your forearms stand up (Freddie King "THE!!!BEAT, on DVD and torrents). That tells me all I need to care about when it comes to mics. I've almost evolved to the point where I feel the more you spend on such things in terms of money and worry, the less good your results will be. It's almost an inescapable relationship.
  • Once had a Radio Shack cassette recorder that came with a little microphone on a coiled cable. That was a good mic. Also had a Mr. Microphone when I was a kid. That was a good mic. Once drove from Berdoo to Newfoundland hauling a 16-wheeler full of irregular underpants and my CB radio had a mic. That was a good mic. Come to think of it, in my life I've used some mics. They were good.
  • In my lab i got an se titan. Shure ksm44. And adk hamburg ii-au. All good miccs if you put the right person infront of em
  • I have about 15 different mic models. Some of which I have multiples so overall I probably have 25 mics. Over the years I've done the same as a lot of folks and used/borrowed/bought a lot of different "favorite" mics of various engineers or forum commenters.

    Most of them were returned/sold fairly shortly afterwards as they never really live up to the hype.

    The rest I have found certain uses for, that just work. Now I don't even bother reading about new mics and such. Instead of trying to buy my talent with some magical microphone-of-the-day, I spend my time with the mics I have and try new things. It's cheaper and doesn't lead you on a wild goose chase.

    However, I think the MOST overlooked part of the microphone discussion is actually preamps. Each preamp can and WILL change the sound of each mic, even if it's just a tiny amount. Take the SM57 mic for example. It sounds best with a low impedance load. It's father, the Unidyne 545, was designed to work best with a 600R load. Same for the SM57. The problem is that a lot of preamps these days are designed to be high impedance so they don't load the mics heavily. The SM57 sounds pretty terrible in this case because it has all kinds of resonance peaks that show up. This is the basis for the "SM57 SUCKS" threads you'll find on ANY audio recording forum. Plug that SM57 into a proper preamp with an input transformer and you'll quickly figure out why professionals still use these mics for damn near everything. (a trick for those of you who only have high impedance preamps.. install a 600R resistor between pins 2 and 3 on your SM57.. Your output will drop a little bit but your mic will smoothen out considerably.)

    @mark_the_harp, I'm sure you know the type of musician who just can't seem to keep his hands off the console when you are working... They reach right over you and start to turn knobs like they know better/more than you.. If I have one of those, I'll mult whatever track they want to mess with to an unused channel and then let them play with it until their heart is content. I just don't tell them that the channel isn't bussed anywhere and that they really aren't doing anything! It works everytime too, they suddenly believe that the track sounds better just because they touched it..

    10000$ mics.. Look as some of the top end Manley, original C12's, some old U47's.. Etc, etc. There are a LOT of mics over 10K.

    My feeling is that somewhere between 1000 and 5000$ is the best mic/cost ratio.

  • The PCM Native plugin is supposed to be as good, according to Lexicon staff at gearslutz. Don't know if that is true, but at least the reverbs in the plugin sound sublime.

    Now back to mics, i have been reading here :

    Indeed there isn't a best mic. How foolish if anyone would think that. Like there can be a best lens? For what purpose is the immediate question following.
    I also think that many of these inexpensive Asian mics will become like the FD and M42 and MD and OM lenses of the future. Great quality at bottom price. You just have to look around a bit and hope for a good specimen no-one has abused too much :)
  • Best trick is to hook it up to a Lexicon 96 :)
  • @Mark_the_Harp

    Best trick to use indeed. Most people can't hear small sonic differences, so it's best to put their mind at ease.
  • We used to do a trick sometimes on sound desks - when a producer was wanting that last ounce of quality: turn one of the knobs clockwise, slowly, while looking thoughtful. Then you'd stop turning it when you'd got it "just right". Then say "how's that?" and they would be happy. Of course, the thing you were adjusting wasn't doing anything at all - but they were happy. Although I was once caught out by one person who said "I don't think increasing the clean feed level will do anything". Usually it did the job though. If you could find an otherwise useless button you could make light up, even better!
  • I think there is a bigger difference among mics than GH2 patches, ppl are just cwazy about gear.
    Plus ribbon mics can sometimes make an awful voice or instrument sound decent. That's worth something.
  • @Vitaliy

    I used to work as a broadcast engineer. All the on-air talent bitched about the mics, it was a given. After churning through $$$ mics/compressors/processors I learned that the only thing talent really wants at the end of the day is brickwall compression and a hump at 100Hz for that crappy boomy "balls" sound. Once you give them that, any mic is great with them.
  • @Shaveblog

    Like your post :-)

    It makes me to remember local talking motherfuckers (TV and radio) who search for perfect mikes ignoring the fact that they sound horrible on any of them.
  • Yeesh, the eternal "best mic" thread. It's like kudzu, or ass cancer. No gear geek forum is safe from its creeping tendrils. It can't be killed or blocked, only endured at periodic intervals.

    The "best mic" is what sounds best to you on a given project. Sometimes it's a Neumann or a Sennheiser or a Chinese clone or a Korean clone of a Chinese clone. Or an old RCA ribbon. Lots of times - way more often than not - it's an SM57. No mic "sucks". Well, except the EV 635a, and even that one is sometimes the best mic.

    The important thing, though, is to absolutely keep this thread alive at all costs, because surely all this geekyak will finally settle this matter once and for all.



  • The Telefunken ELa M 251 is 10000$. It's probably that one he meant.
    http://mixonline.com/products/review/audio_telefunken_ela/ (There's also a stereo version at 17k :)
    There's a good alternative in the Peluso mics, or if you don't want a Chinese mic, you can buy the Telefunken AR 51 http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=12438
    http://www.soundonsound.com/news?NewsID=12665
  • Yes the $10,000 mic does sound a bit odd, although I'm sure it is possible.
    I've never actually used or seen a $10,000 microphone, other than some hitech head simulations which didn't sound great.
    I've used expensive systems, like the Schoeps KFM 360 5.1 Surround Sound System ($18,000) and, well, if I really liked it I would have bought one, but I just don't like so much these "sphere" or "head" systems. Maybe someday. Part of the art of recording is moving the mics around, hard to do that when they are in a sphere. But that isn't really a mic, it is a "system". $18,000 will buy you a pair of DPA omnis, a pair of MK41, and a box of assorted Sennheisers.

    Of the expensive mics--and here, why would you ever pay more?--the Neumann Solution D (which I don't like) is $8000. Of course, it isn't just the mic, its digital. The Neumann M149 (which I like) clocks in at $5,000. A DPA 4003 $1800. Schoeps MK41 with the CMC6 (not the XT which does not sound so good) also $1800.
    And there are more, of course. A Coles 4040 which is monster ribbon mic, is $1500. Cheap for that mic. A steal.
    So a single pattern, handmade mic from Schoeps, which is one of the finest mics you will ever use, is under $2000 complete with a variable voltage preamp.
    Basically, there is a price ceiling of $2,000 for a really top end mic and around $3,000 for a multipattern, unless you go for the M149, which is really nice mic but a bit overpriced.
    The best microphone in the world is of course the Rens Heijnis modified TLM 170s that I have on my shelf complete with a discrete, 12 pattern power supply and remote control. 12 patterns, smooth as silk.
    Why do I mention this? Because once you get over the say $4000 price, you are better off having something custom made, with all discrete circuits, solid silver wire, the whole nine yards, unless you just want the "big name".
    As far as I know, of the big four, only the Schoeps are still hand made in the traditional sense. Maybe DPA.

    So there is no reason to pay more. Get a pair of Schoeps, or DPA, Neumann, Sennheiser, or whatever and you will have great gear. There is a reason the MK41 has a great rep in the video world, it is a great mic.

    As for the under $600, well, the Elation KM201, the modded Oktavas, Joly's 47 capsule, the SP B1, the Stellar CM6 tube, I mean there are some good mics for under $600. And the reality is, the budget mics are just going to get better and better, until there is zero difference. There are some high quality "clone" capsules being made, and boutique outfits that will put that capsule in a custom housing with state of the art circuitry.
  • @muntus
    >However, for most things, you can record at home with this mic, and you'd never know it by listening to it.

    This one is much better.
    But all this "the only sub $600 mic I would recommend" and "I've used mics that cost over $10,000" looks weird.

    It can be good mike, and thanks for posting this info.
    But such phrases don't help :-)
  • Bad jokes have bad punch lines. Maybe this is a good joke? :)

    I'm a voiceover artist and I use the AT2020 USB for everything I record at home. When in the studio, I've used mics that cost over $10,000 that sound better than the Audio Technica. However, for most things, you can record at home with this mic, and you'd never know it by listening to it.

    If this thread is about choosing a good mic for voiceovers, it should be posted here, regardless of price.
  • >I'd say the only sub $600 mic I would recommend to anyone is the Audio Technica AT2020 USB.

    We are not talking on such level here.
    Or this is a bad joke?
    How many mikes do you have?

    >If you are using this solely on the computer, don't get the non-usb version which is cheaper.

    I think it could be good for "Budget USB microphones topic" :-)
  • I'd say the only sub $600 mic I would recommend to anyone is the Audio Technica AT2020 USB. At less than $100 on Amazon, it is the best voiceover mic you can get for the money. http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-AT2020-USB-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B001AS6OYC/

    If you are using this solely on the computer, don't get the non-usb version which is cheaper. It is a xlr connection and you will need something like a Pro-Tools box to plug it in. The xlr version is the exact same mic, just without the usb hardware.

  • I bough so many of these as they came out. I never use them. The ribbon mics you can rebuild and they sound OK with new ribbon and new transformer. And there are some OK ones, but most just a bit under Oktava, esp. with the mod. The Studio Projects B1 is a steal at $100, and so is the Zoom H2. Mainly the budget mics are a bit monochromatic. But it is fun to try new mics.