The GH5 is insanely sharp if you want it to be. From what I've seen of the S, rumors of less detail are exaggerated. This whole line of conversation is odd. I thought people were always complaining that things are too sharp, these days.

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Nah... I'm watching EVA1 videos and they look great. I've watched on multiple monitors around office also... same look.

Here's a good example of the really-bad detail I'm talking about. This person seems like a perfectly fine shooter, so nothing against their skills... but the detail is absolutely horrendous. It looks like an old-school 5D mark2 or a cell-phone. Over-processed, everything looks like plastic, artifacts around every piece of dirt. Looks like blown-up 720p. Not sure if this is camera settings or bad-post workflow... but I've seen this look on allot of GH5/s (mostly GH5s) videos. It's even how those Nuemann-Films GH5 original-files looked... so I don't think it's the web entirely. It's not good.

Companies will never ever make full off setting for NR. As it means big marketing consequences, as people instantly realize how big role it plays.

Welp, that sucks...

@endotoxic

I insist that panafriend should make two firmwares. 1 a complete implementations of actual.gha5s 2 a firmware without all temporal noise reduction so we can manage in post . And extra features for disable options in camera. If. This is a pro oriented product born from a consumer one. It is still consumer, but if it is amied to pros we should have proper manual control just like a pro camera.

Completely agree. There is not reason there shouldn't be an extra "off" setting to the in-body NR and Sharpness controls. Does the GH5s team have a twitter or something to get at them?

The GH5 has a pretty good balance. The G85 has identical sharpness, but the GH5 has all those options frame rates, bitrates and so on. The GH5 has slightly better color and slightly better artifact control, but these are tiny differences. But I would be mainly using the 6300/6500 if the heating problem was a total non issue. I even thought of buying one and just drilling holes in it.

I insist that panafriend should make two firmwares.

1 a complete implementations of actual.gha5s

2 a firmware without all temporal noise reduction so we can manage in post . And extra features for disable options in camera.

If. This is a pro oriented product born from a consumer one. It is still consumer, but if it is amied to pros we should have proper manual control just like a pro camera. On post we will
Make the adjustments like noise reduction color texture etc. I'm not ranting it is just that they have come so close to a proper camera and some extra controls from the pro user who understand the drawbacks and the advantages, may well use this tool more efitiently

@bwhitz @fahrenheit I don't rely on the reviews so much, I just rent the cameras for a day and try them out. The log comparison that leans Panasonic seems a bit off to me, log can go many different ways, and I haven't had a chance to rent the GH5s yet, but based on the samples, I don't think I will bother. Why didn't the review with the log example mention that the 6300 is so much better in the test scene? That seems really odd. The A7rii has great IQ and very good LL image in Super35. Try it for a day. The A7sii is for when it is really dark, so it's a specialty camera. Cameras like the a6300 and a6500 pull a ton of detail out of the image (see the photo below). Also, the GH5, a lot of things done right on that camera, but it isn't for filming in the dark. I don't film in the dark, but if I did I would go for one of the Sony cameras.
I mean, if you buy a camera that is kind of blurry, you spend the next few years looking at blurry stuff.
Anyway, if you don't want to try the actual camera out, there's any number of side by side comparisons: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/panasonic-lumix-dc-gh5s-review/8
And to me, the video of even the G85 is better than the 5s in the dpreview comparison, plus the a6300 is substantially better. If you are a filmmaker who want no IS, good LL and a bigger sensor, isn't the 6300 just better and cheaper? If I only saw the image below, I would just go out and buy the a6300, that's for sure, but it is always better to try them out for awhile. It isn't a small difference.

@endotoxic

Interesting, good to know. I will keep looking at GH5s footage as it comes in. I really want to get this cam... but all these noise-reduction settings, or whatever is going on, seems terrible. Although, to be fair... there just isn't much GH5s footage out there yet... so maybe (I'm hoping) it's just NooBz cranking up the NR and sharpening... lol. We'll see...

Cut or not...the issue here is the detail

Sharpness relies on many factor: Lens, Bitrate, Micro-contrast, Grain, framing, lights, Your Monitor (even its calibration)... They aren't "just" achieved through camera specs.

Sure, but like I was saying... I've been comparing as many situations as I can find. All on the same monitor. And yes, if it is just the settings, that would be great to know. But I want to be sure before I pull the trigger on a purchase.

Finally, if you're looking at Logarithmic Profile, it's going to look very neutral in sharpness. They are supposed to be treated heavily in post (despite what youtube average joe tutorial tells you that Log footage grade easily). From experience GH lines (1-2-3-4-5, still have to try 5s) have plenty of details, especially compared to other cameras.

Well, I know what I'm looking for. There is a specific look/detail level that exists in other 4k footage that I'm not seeing here. Not to blow my own horn... but I do work in the industry as a VFX artist, basically #2 guy at a post-production house. On many projects that are VFX-heavy... I have final say on camera what is used for the shoot... and I've done projects on basically every camera that exists. I've been downloading as much original GH5/GH5s footage as I can find... and it STILL doesn't have as much detail as even Blackmagic 2.5k footage shot in 1080p prores. I'm also comparing to Alexa and Red and, obviously, not really the same ball-park (although Alexa isn't true 4k)... BUT... there is no reason it shouldn't be close. EVA1 and Varicams all look amazing. But really... all the 4K GH5 footage I can find looks like 720-800p. I'm sure it would probably measure higher than that... but the "crunch", or detail-artifacting, makes it look way lower and artificial. Anyways, I would love to be mistaken about all of this... maybe I'm just finding videos where the users have cranked up all the detail-ruining settings, so... if you DO have any links to really well shot GH5 that you would say is a good example of clean-4k detail levels. Please post them!!! (I'll keep looking myself, also) I want to get to the bottom of this... and I really want to get another GH line camera! I just can't use anything I'm seeing along with Blackmagic 4.6k, Red, or Alexa. It doesn't need to obviously match those camera in overall IQ... but it needs to have around the same detail. It can't have that crunched, smooshy, look like the Neumann footage has... where all the detail is destroyed. I have a project coming up on the Red Weapon and I would really like a GH5/s as a b-cam or even a-cam for certain scenes.

Sharpness relies on many factor: Lens, Bitrate, Micro-contrast, Grain, framing, lights, Your Monitor (even its calibration)... They aren't "just" achieved through camera specs. Finally, if you're looking at Logarithmic Profile, it's going to look very neutral in sharpness. They are supposed to be treated heavily in post (despite what youtube average joe tutorial tells you that Log footage grade easily). From experience GH lines (1-2-3-4-5, still have to try 5s) have plenty of details, especially compared to other cameras.

@Vitaliy_Kiselev

Huh, so it is the sharpness setting then? I've seen some that say they have all sharpness and NR turned off... and they still look "crunchy" with low detail.

I guess I'll just have to rent them and I try them out for myself. Or just save up and get an overpriced EVA1... lol. The detail from the EVA does look great though. Very natural, yet high-detail... "true-4K" look.

@DrDave

Well, to be fair I've been on a great detail-investigation this last week (since I really want to get a new DSLR-style camera) and nothing is turning out that well at the moment.

I downloaded the original footage in question here, from the original GH5 and the detail is just awful. Yes, the colors and DR are very nice... and the the footage indeed grades well... but it honestly, and no I'm not trying to be facetious here... it looks like 720p footage. There is just no detail. Both Alexa and Blackmagic 2k footage have WAY more detail than these supposed "4K" original files. The Sony As7II is not looking good either. Everything I can find from that camera is mush as well. Some look a bit better than the GH-line... but it still has that processed-plasitc look that ruins detail as well as motion. I don't know what is going on. I guess I never watched these cams full screen before.

Now, to make things even more perplexing... for some reason THIS GH5 video has a TON more detail than any other GH5/s footage I've seen.

This footage is excellent in the detail department. But why? Everything else I can find looks like mush (yes, even when downloading originals), like the Neumann footage. Is it because this was a pre-production GH5? Did these pre-production models not have the NR and sharpening enabled (aka. detail destroyers)? Maybe I'm missing something?