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Panasonic G6 topic, GH2 replacement camera
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  • neokooneokoo

    @andy_lee

    What do you mean? H.264 codec is used in both AVCHD and mp4 files, the data is just stored differently.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AVCHD

    As far as comparisons go, only original files from camera, or clips of them compressed losslessly (not even ProRes, but actual lossless formats) are any good. Of course recompressed Vimeo or Youtube clips are near-useless for judging compression quality of camera itself.

  • andy_leeandy_lee

    BTW - I was shooting AVCHD - 24p 1920x1080 why anyone would do a camera test in mpeg is beyond me its a crap internet codec I would disregard any reviews in mpeg as its not the best quaility the camera can do!!

  • andy_leeandy_lee

    Shaveblog - well I used 3 different Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar lenses and 2 Canon L series lenses went through all the color profiles on both cameras used a color chart shot inside and outside went through all the Kelvin settings - and yes the G6 in my opinon is producing a better image than my hacked GH2 - Driftwood Quantum 9b HACK - 150 mb/s - and Im a huge GH2 fanboy - I love that camera - but time moves on an G6 is the new kid on the block...

    But next till I will just look on youtube like everyone else then comment on the compression artifacts

  • KihlianKihlian

    @eyenorth THanks for the comparison, I can´t decide GH2 to -> GH3 or G6..

  • groovejetgroovejet

    @eyenorth Thanks for taking the time to provide that video. I appreciate it.

  • ShaveblogShaveblog

    @andy_lee I'm afraid your opinion that the G6 shoots better looking video than a hacked GH2 is invalid, as you actually own both cameras and took the time to do proper comparison testing. I put much more stock in uninformed blind speculation and downloaded 3rd party clips of unverifiable provenance - they just feel truthier to me, is all.

  • nacnac

    GH2 wins.

    I downloaded the 1080p (pity is crappy youtube).

    To my eyes I much prefer the GH2 over the G6. The detail when the wind blows the branches is much better on the GH2. Also the detail in the wood grain is better on the GH2, the G6 looks soft.

    At this stage the G6 is out for me. It's a fantastic camera for the price, but I'll look at either a GH3 or BMPCC as an upgrade of the GH2.

    Thanks for posting the video. Any chance of sharing a higher bit-rate version?

  • eyenortheyenorth

    Here's a short comparison looking at resolving of image. Both shot with zuiko 50mm f1.4 at f5.6. The GH2 has Flow Motion v2 installed in 24p with average bitrate on the tree shot at 94 mb/s. The G6 is in 24p mode avchd with average bitrate of 22 mb/s on the tree shot. I think the G6 holds up very well indeed. Even scaled in very tight the difference isn't much. Fine motion in leaves in shadows on the tree shot show a little compression artifacting on the G6, but less than anticipated from my side. I think this little camera can prove a very versatile tool to bring along.

  • MordaeMordae

    Or if you're a hobbyist / seldom paid job shooter, be happy with what you have and skip a few generations! That's what I'm gonna do and I have a GX1!

  • andy_leeandy_lee

    I have done extensive tests with my hacked gh2 (driftwood quantum 9b 150mb/s) and the G6 using the same Carl Zeiss Vario sonnar lens on both and the G6 is much better image wise Panasonic have done a superb job with the G6 - its has a much finer gain structure alot less mosquito noise in the black and dark areas and is just as sharp as the hacked gh2

    Its a no brainer the g6 is very very good - just buy one

  • groovejetgroovejet

    @eyenorth I'm really looking forward to seeing your comparison. I'm a hacked GH2 owner who is currently considering the GH3, G6 and BMPCC.

  • eyenortheyenorth

    Wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the G6's video quality, from what I see it is pretty solid. I'll be uploading a short comparison between the G6 and hacked GH2 later today.

  • neokooneokoo

    @ntsan

    I think they would have good differentiation even if G6 had same codecs as GH3. That one has more convenient manual controls, better build quality etc., and if someone cannot afford GH3, better to sell them a new G6 than have them buy a second-hand GH2? But only Panasonic knows, they must have numbers to back up decisions with G6. And as general consumer reviews are good, our minority opinions probably don't matter to them anyway…

    My guess is they're hard at work on GH5, and it'll have focus peaking as G6, same or better sensor as GH3, and same or better codecs as GH3. So G6 may be limited also to "protect" that model.

    Anyway, I bought G6 primarily as timelapse camera - it's a decent tool for that purpose - and to check what its 28Mbps 50p mode is good for (not much IMO). If G6 never gets hacked, I'll keep it around to capture cat moments, or give it to a relative who doesn't need high quality video. So it's not much of a loss, but as far as video goes, a disappointment, yes. Tired as heck of 8bit low-bitrate H.264 limits by now, especially as BMPCC with ProRes costs only €200 more than G6. Will probably not buy G/GH series for video in the future, unless Panasonic offers ProRes or AVC-Intra 100 on them, or our usual heroes hack them.

  • mjfanmjfan

    @andy_lee can you do a comparison video with a g6 and a hacked gh2 please? i still don't know which one i should buy for the best video, thanks so much

  • andy_leeandy_lee

    the crop factor of the g6 is x2 - the gh2 is x1.86 I have both cameras and can confirm this

  • ntsanntsan

    I think some people have too high expectation of G6, since it is a designate G not GH so they tend to cripple it to differentiate from GH, if G is good enough who would want to spend double amount of money on the GH?

    (having said that the there are some features I do really want with the G6)

  • RenovatioRenovatio

    Hi Guys, I contacted panasonic.it (cause i'm italian) to ask THE EXACT crop factor of the new g6. They sent me to the manual of the body (LOL). So I noticed that in both the manual of g6 and in the oldness of the gh2 I had, it said, when talking about the objectives, ex. the 14-140, that is equivalent to 28-280. As if the crop factor was 2,0x. But there's written the same thing in both manuals, of g6 and gh2. So I pointed out that this is a mistake, since even online tests show that the crop factor is different. They answered me again, they will contact someone really competent and MAYBE I will know, but on the official facebook page (where also i contacted them), they have written that panasonic factories do not specify more than "about 2x" as crop factor. How sad.

    Anyway G6 is not so good as it seemed to be? Yet it seems detailed. The problem of focus peaking in low light situation is so serious?

    Thanks

  • vovka_berdvovka_berd

    Thanks to all for the information, I almost decided to buy g6 but I still have some questions:-) Could anybody say if the peaking(not focus pointing)is visible via wifi? And one more: can somebody make a clear video of how focus peaking is working on camera lcd in normal light conditions (not in lowlight). Thanks in advance.

  • eyenortheyenorth

    First impressions are positive here, especially considering price tag. VIdeo looks quite good. ISO performance baffles me a bit since it shares GH2 sensor. Noise is better controlled throughout ISO range on G6, so there seems to be quite a bit of NR going on also after having dialed down to -5. Not necessarily bad thing. Below is lenscap test.

  • neokooneokoo

    @Shaveblog

    Post-purchase rationalization and self-deception go hand in hand ;) I own a G6 and honestly would very much like for it to match a hacked GH2 in video compression quality. Unfortunately it does not. Here is a short clip of a cityscape, original MP4 file from stock G6 (1080p50):

    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16587899/for_pv/P1340770.MP4

    A still frame from it, in TIF format so there would be no further compression to ruin comparison: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16587899/for_pv/P1340770_mp4_frame.tif

    And for reference, a JPG of what G6 actually "sees" and what would be close to results of high video bitrate settings. All exposure, ISO, WB etc. settings are same as in video version, but image is resized to 1920x1080 from original 12mpix JPG and saved as TIF to avoid further compression: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16587899/for_pv/P1340769_JPEG_low_still_resized_to_1080.tif

    …and the original unresized JPG. You don't need it for comparison, but here it is if you want it for some reason: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/16587899/for_pv/P1340769.JPG

    Look at buildings and fine details in the clip and frame stills. Look at roofs of buildings. On your computer, flick between TIFs of that MP4 frame and the JPG frame to see the difference clearly.

    This is a kind of image that stock G6 can't compress well in video. There are many fine, moving details, the light is low, there are gradients on surfaces, heat in the air is warping the details and lowering contrast. A challenge for any camera that uses high compression ratio codec.

    As I don't have a GH2 anymore, can't give you exact comparison of how best video compression settings on it can render view like this. But with 90+Mbps bitrates the GH2 would render that view much more faithfully, and more so with custom matrices you find in some settings here on PV. It'd be closer to that resized JPG than the MP4 frame. This I know after 2.5 years of owning a GH2 and using it both stock and hacked.

    I'll save you the rant of how I generally feel about manufacturers doing this "we sell you good hardware, but cripple the software" thing. There would be expletives. But don't fall for post-purchase wishful thinking, because that's what keeps those companies toying with us instead of honestly selling us full-featured devices.

  • mjfanmjfan

    is the image as sharp as a hacked gh2? i'm talking mainly for video, still not sure which one has the better video image, please help, I only have money for 1 camera and want the best one for video

  • callebcalleb

    Agree, It's more plastic than the GH2. I would compare it to Nikon D5200. But you really have consider the price tag. This is not a 1300 dollar metallic weather sealed GH3 for professionals. Focus pointing has to be engaged on the touch screen and works both in camera video mode and on wifi mode.

    Also prefer LCD EVF to OLED. My OLY E-M5 EVF for example is really bad. But it's better in dark environments.

    The blacks are black. No banding like with my GH2 and it's sharp.

    I hope you'll get more positive. It took me a week but I'm hooked.

  • oscillianoscillian

    First handling impressions compared to GH2:

    Cons: plastic fantastic body, feels very brittle. Control wheels and buttons much cheaper quality, especially shutter button and rear wheel. Peaking doesn't show up when you need it, only when stuff is obviously in focus. My Sony RX100 does a much better job at peaking. Even if the LCD is higher rez, I can tell focus easier on the GH2 thanks to the moire-ish pattern you get. EVF, same thing: GH2 is much sharper.

    Pros: 3.5 mic jack! Rocker is well positioned and operates silently when changing exposure comp (to bad it isn't stepless) 50, 25, 24 1080p. Better color profile adjustments. Seemingly better ISO performance and much less banding.

    I'm not overly positive yet. Lets see after a week!

  • mjfanmjfan

    we need another comparison video, that will settle this

  • digitalamatordigitalamator

    ok guys so check this and tell me pls ....did g6 will be better for video than gh2 ?

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