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PTool v3.62d topic
  • 327 Replies sorted by
  • StrayStray
    @kron Yeah, I tried a higher bitrate this morning and it still had the same problem. I'm currently using a set similar to the one you posted on the maximum image quality thread but I've set the AQ to 1. GOP is still 12. I did also double the frame buffers, and I tripled both the 24H and 24L top/bottom settings. 24H is at 66MB and 24L is at 48MB, both are recording well without the cadence problem so far, well not on the test shots I was using that normally did. Also I have FSH at 32MB so I doubled the other top/bottom, but I havent tested that setting yet.

    I also set parameters that we would set with the previous ptool which we probably don't need to now such as 24H ADD to 66000000 and the video buffers to 2800000 and 3600000 respectively. Anyway, yes, I'm really happy with what I'm getting here (especially the look of motion) but will take the camera out soon to give it a proper run.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    >something's wrong with the hack, I think

    It is something wrong with GH2 encoder bitrate estimator, not the hack :-)
    GH1 is even worse, of course. But GH2 is also not the best greation in the world :-)
  • ivan858ivan858
    its the camera not the hack. =)!
  • kronkron
    Correct, around the 30s mark the I and P frames get smaller and the B frames bigger. Maybe you're right about it being bitrate related, I don't know. I did not try over 44Mb myself as it seems pointless. If double the stock bitrate isn't enough, something's wrong with the hack, I think.
  • StrayStray
    @kron. Yep did the same for me. However, I've gone back to turning AQ off and it's all okay. Obvioulsy, it means dropping detail in shadows etc, but consistency is more important to me now. For example, shooting the death chart for 3 and a half minutes with AQ4 showed no cadence issues (with T4 left as it is, unchecked), but then shoting a normal mostly static indoor scene resulted in the issue appearing again after shooting about 1 minute of footage. Are you sure you're happy with the T1 setting, aren't you getting a drop off in I and P frame sizes after about 20 seconds ?

    Even with AQ off I am keeping the frame buffers doubled, as I figure that when I shoot high detail scenes that are going to drive it up to the 44MB, it will still help the codec out a lot with regard the ratios of I to B and P. What I'd like to know is if the cadence issue is bit rate related, as in does it not appear at 66MB GOP 12. Basically, are we the only ones noticing this, or is noone else checking footage shot thats a couple of minutes long ?

    Edit : Could the problem be related to lowlight static shots specifically ? As in its messing something up over time in a scene with a lot of shadows ?
  • kronkron
    In my case, 1080p24 T4=1080p24 T1 seems to fix the cadence issue, or at least flatten the ripples greatly.
  • sammysammy
    @cosimo_bullo
    would love to see 44mbs graded vs 88 or higher,I wont have my editing pc for another week, would be great if you can show as a grading test between the two..thanks
  • cosimo_bullocosimo_bullo
    @Butt

    "">Perhaps this is a reason we do not see a drastic difference between 44 and 88 mbit<<br />

    No, there never will be a drastic difference 44 and 88 Mbps
    the fill with zeros only leads to larger files and not to a better image""

    We are in fact seeing a very dramatic difference but only in shadows and with a LOT of motion. The difference is huge though in terms of grading. Not wanting a war here or anything, just want to clarify that we really DO see a difference.

    And, btw, we've moved 44 low to 52 now, as that does seem to help quite a bit with the shadows.
  • vladnikvladnik
    @cbrandin
    u been very clear .I know that we can set QP, but before decoding frames go through deblocking so first loop filter 24 qp than qp we set .
    quote
    Furthermore all P- and B-Frames in H.264 streams refer to the deblocked frames instead of the unprocessed ones, which improves the compressibility.
  • cbrandincbrandin
    @vladnik
    I guess I was a little unclear about the filtering. The QP does gown as much as you set it to. It's the deblocking filters that don't seem to change at low (below 24) QP values - they are totally different things. This is somewhat of a theory now - needs more research.

    Chris
  • vladnikvladnik
    It does not fill with zeros
    Image is degraded at the beginning so higher bitrates cant do much
    H264 is made as delivery codec for Blu-ray, internet etc , not production.
    AVCHD uses a lot of enhancement to decrease artifacts/blockiness and smooth image,
    but price is less details and sharpness plus plastic look of textures.
    now we have high bitrate pacth , 130mbit can give us look visually identical to uncompressed 420 if we can feed the codec with clean data .
  • stoneystoney
    Prolly you already know about this.

    I doubled the default GOP sizes. 24 for 24p, 60 for 60p, 30 for 60i. Every and each mode consistently produced average overall bitrate slightly more than only half the size of specified overall bitrate.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    >the fill with zeros only leads to larger files and not to a better image

    Sometimes it is better to keep such theories to yourself.
  • ButtButt
    >Perhaps this is a reason we do not see a drastic difference between 44 and 88 mbit<<br />

    No, there never will be a drastic difference 44 and 88 Mbps
    the fill with zeros only leads to larger files and not to a better image
  • otcxotcx
    Here is Stream Parser information without zoom.
    Zoom.gif
    1680 x 1050 - 380K
  • otcxotcx
    I noticed strange phenomenon when I tested the new Ptool. I had 14 - 140 lens and i was shooting floating ducks. 1080/50i was 50000000, the GPO 6 and AQ 3. Without Zoom, everything worked OK. Zoom in the middle everything worked OK, Zoom in full kamerara crashed.
  • StrayStray
    It does move on the change a little bit in the timeline but only by about 4 - 5 seconds. I doubled the Time Values to 36000000 and 18000000. This is still AQ3 and T4 replaced with T1.
    AQ3T1_timevalues_x2.jpg
    1298 x 684 - 289K
  • StrayStray
    > Try to double "Time Value 1" and "Time Value 2" in testers section and see if this 20 seconds will become 40 seconds, ok?

    will do, give us a bit.
  • towitowi
    thanks!
  • StrayStray
    Oh! is it swtiching to different tables while recording the stream, so what I'm seeing after those 20 seconds is a switch to the Table I've selected instead of the T4 table ?
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    >don't we have to set T3 also to T2??

    No.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    @vladnik
    I see, we'll talk to Chris about this in upcoming week.
  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev
    >Vitaliy, any thoughts on the frame size changes I see after 20 seconds where B frames grow and I and P frames shrink ?

    I have some ideas.
    Try to double "Time Value 1" and "Time Value 2" in testers section and see if this 20 seconds will become 40 seconds, ok?
  • towitowi
    @vitaly

    cool, thanks!
    so when the "fallback" table (T4) is set for example to T2 ... don't we have to set T3 also to T2??
  • vladnikvladnik
    @Vitaliy_Kiselev
    from Cbrandin
    quote
    I think Panasonic gets around some of the filtering CPU overhead by using pre-calculated tables. Those tables don't change below a QP of about 24. My guess is that they didn't bother with lower settings because they assume the QP will never go below 20 (the factory low limit). I think I know where they are, but the parameter tables have other stuff mixed in. I'll have to decipher what they are doing.

    Chris
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