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Nikon D5200 topic
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  • @adventsam yeah it's a straight transcode to ProRes, 24p with a 1/50 shutter. There's jello but there's no judder.

  • @squig

    My grading attempt to look like the Samsara movie :)

  • Review from Camera Labs: first video with boats on water shows no aliasing/moire. Sand texture, boat lines and cords are difficult to cameras but D5200 shows perfect image. A little bit soft but a small amount of sharpen in post solves it perfectly. A little contrasty, maybe standard profile, but this is easy to solve with other profiles, or windows media player is crushing the shadows as it always do. (download original from Vimeo and try VLC player). Autofocus is poor, but who cares, manual focus always for serious production. Codec performance is great!

  • @apefos

    That 25p pan video is so much smoother than the same thing from the RX100, NEX5N I downloaded from the website a few weeks, and other cameras! I don't know if it's due to the processing, codec or sensor itself

    The NEX5n video was also full of aliasing

    D5200 autofocus is a tad too eager, while my RX100 is on the other spectrum :)

  • Bad autofocus, but for serious production autofocus needs to be disabled in any camera.

    Being smoother is good or bad? Maybe it is smoother due to a slower shutter speed. Increase shutter speed can remove the blur while panning.

    I just do not like the image from Sony Nex cameras. The image texture is to much digital, it has some kind of pixelation like a upsample without smooth the pixels. Yes, lots of aliasing. And they looks so thin to fit on a tripod... They suffer from overheat also. Low light is noisy. I just can think about them to do things like action as a gopro camera or when you need something very easy to carry on a pocket. They have 1080 60p but I do not see much improvement from the GH2 720 60p.

  • I made a comparison between D5200 and GH3:

  • @Angry_C Thanks for doing the comparison. I downloaded the original and the GH3 looks sharper in some ways but the D5200 hold up pretty good even with the kit lens which is not the sharpest lens by any way. To me it looks like the D5200 has a bit more DR and the GH3 still gets muddy in the shadows. The D5200 codec does a pretty decent job. What record mode was the GH3 in AVCD or H264?

  • @rigs
    The record mode was 50mbit MOV.

  • Great test @Angry_C

    No doubt for me D5200 is much better camera, much better DR and it is even better with the Flaat profiles. Small amount of Sharpen in post solves resolution pretty good, better low light performance, no moire/aliasing, bigger sensor, and cheaper than GH3.

    I developed a way to test the ADL (Active D_Lighting), a way to improve the DR even more:

    Read about ADL here: and here

    Way to do a more scientific test about ADL (Active D-Lighting):

    put camera on tripod to fix the metering and also get same frame, point to a shadow/highlight scene (house interior with a open window or a tree against sky with clouds)

    set metering mode to Matrix Metering (recommended by the pdf manual when using ADL)

    set picture profile to standard, not dialed down, everything (contrast, color, noise reduction, sharpness) in middle position

    another good test is set picture profile to portrait dialed down (but maybe the difference between ADL on and off will not be so pronounced?)

    set camera dial to M and use the same exposure and iso for all video shoots, try to use a middle position shutter/aperture/iso, for example: 1/500 f8 iso 800 (set the exposure with ADL off in a way to get dark shadows and bright highlights, so it will be better to perceive any improvement when turn ADL on)

    shot a video with ADL off, and then turn ADL to EXTRA HIGH and shoot another video (be careful to shoot with same sunlight power, to avoid exposure changes).

    upload the videos or frame grabs extracted from videos.

  • @apefos

    Smoother as in good! More like analog film panning. GH2 is pretty juddery when you pan at 24-25p. RX100 is a little better but still not great. Even with slow shutter speeds

    That clip above I posted still seems smooth, on Youtube. Some of my sample clips of my RX100 and GH2 I uploaded to YT judder and jerk quite a bit :(

    Part sensor and part codec me thinks..

  • After studying a little more and seeing the videos again I found the obvious thing: using Flaat or Lpowell profiles we do not need Active D-Lighting.

  • With D800 stills, at least, Active D-Lighting defeats custom picture profile curves. I think it works by using curves of it's own, which replace the custom curves.

  • @cbrandin That makes sense, it all boils down to how the linear 14-bit RAW image sensor data is mapped into the gamma-corrected 8-bit JPEG or video color space. The built-in Picture Profiles are attempts to use an aesthetic approach to accommodate users' gamma curve preferences. Active-D Lighting is an attempt to dynamically adjust the gamma curve by auto-exposing each macroblock individually. This works a lot better on stills or static scenes, since it's not prescient enough to seamlessly manage frame-to-frame changes in lighting.

    Camera manufacturers haven't yet seen the value in giving us direct manual control of the gamma curve, and in a nutshell, that's what I designed Nikon Gamma Controls to provide. Here's the link again:

  • I hear you about Active D-Lighting and video. Actually, I don't like it much even with stills because you never know exactly what it is going to do - and it can affect exposure with raw files.

  • Does anyone think there is a possibility of working on a hack for the d5200?

  • Does anyone think there is a possibility of working on a hack for the d5200?

    As far as I know firmware for D5200 is not available.

  • Silly vid graded with mojo...posterisation in the shadows due to what I outputted. My original Prores file didnt have it.

    Love how the camera has a more filmic look than some of the others around.

  • @Mimirsan

    What do you think of that 35mm f1.8G lens? It's one I'm thinking of getting if I got for the D5200

    Footage looked pretty clean for indoors

  • Flaat picture profiles from Samuel Hurtado were tested by D5200 owners and approved by himself for D5200. Also Lpowell profiles were tested and delivers similar DR. Reported DR is 10.7, 11.3 and 11.7 fstops depending on profile used. (from another forum)

    Low light performance, denoising response, resolution, friendly to sharpen in post, moire/aliasing free, improved DR with custom profiles, good codec, S35 size sensor, nikon mount glass, price point, manual controls, mic input, rotate lcd, good size for tripod, make this camera the best low budget thing until HDR or WDR sensor become available sometime in future. Deal with the 720p 60p for slow motion and learn how to minimize horizontal lines in underexposed footage and be happy. (also a monster for stills if you need it)

    I downloaded and saw many videos and what I found is:

    Much, much better low light performance than GH3, too much noise in GH3 at same iso and D5200 is almost clean and denoised footage shows no tremble until iso 3200 (3200 looks like iso 100 after denoised)

    Low light performance pretty close to 5D Mark III until iso 3200, and in my real life experience, with a fast lens, it is hard to find a situation where you really need more than 3200 iso. Also, LCD is articulated, I can't imagine myself dealing with 5D and an external monitor.

    6400 and 12800 iso are pretty usable if you add some small amount of film grain simulation after denoise to hide the tremble. Also, if audience is not so close to screen, some kind of 1.5 to 2x distance compared to screen width, the original noise from 6400 and 12800 looks ok!

    Much better DR than GH3 when both are used with in camera profiles dialed down. Also Dynamic range improves a lot with Flaat or Lpowell profiles, leaving GH3 on dust, unexpected surprise feature for a low budget DSLR with inexpensive SDHC and SDXC storage. Even less noise in shadows than Canon cameras with Flaat profiles. Reported posts in other forum says D5200 DR with Flaat is close to BMCC ProRes.

    Nikon mount is full of the best lenses options, including old manual focus nikon lenses which are great optical quality, comparable to new lenses from digital era. (Smart people just buy full frame nikon mount lenses because the flange, image circle and mount allow them to be used in almost ANY camera and fstop can be adjusted manually even if there is no diaphragm ring. Being smart, only lenses not full frame to be considered are the nikon mount APS-C ultra wide if needed)

    I think this camera is future prof until a cheap dslr with dual stream hdr sensor land in Earth. Buy it and forget about gear! To be honest, I would like a hack to increase the datarate to 40 or 48Mbps, but my eyes does not have any complain about D5200 codec until now after seeing low light and daylight footage. I like the 24Mbps from D5200, it is solid codec!

    Only reason to choose another camera is if you really need HDR video for extreme situations. So you must go for the T3i with VAF-TXi filter or for the 5D Mark III which is moire/aliasing free in 720p and better low light. (720p is best mode for Magic Lantern HDR due to more fps).

    If you do not have a Canon body with ML HDR, don't forget you can do a dual shoot on tripod and do a mask or luma key to merge them in post. Also if there is movement, same shoot can be duplicated in separate layers with different gradings and merged with luma key or opacity, useful for lots of situations. Also, Ginger Tonemap plugin allows to grade the shadows/midtones/highlights separately!

  • From my very limited testing of both camera in-store recently, the only truly big downside, for me at least, is the 5200's video autofocus. In the exact same conditions as the GH3, it was at least twice as slow, louder, and very often would not even get focus. The GH3 always got focus, quickly and quietly. I know, for professional video use, it's probably nothing, however if you plan to use it to also shoot the kids/family or just don't want to manually focus all the time, the 5200 seemed lacking by comparison, in case somebody was curious.

  • @tenpoundpillow

    From what I know it depends on the lens being used. The kit lens is slow and noisey. You need one of the better Nikon lens with the VRII for faster, quiet and more accurate autofocusing

  • one note, from my prospective, GH3 has a better dynamic range, compared to 5dmk3.. for resolution, D5200 not as good as GH2, which to me with fast lenses and iso not going over 1250 is still the overall winner. 720 on GH2 is sure better than 720 on 5dmk3., imho.

  • @coolcolj The 35mm f1.8g is a great lens. Cant really sniff at its price either. The video was shot at 320 iso

  • @olegkalyan

    What about banding? GH2 had terrible banding indoors with low contrast white coloured walls, especially when you adjust the aperture.

  • Have hot had problems with banding, could you show some examples?