@sicovdplas I respect your point of view on the c300. Many tend to think of it as a pure ENG camera, which I understand. Higher bitrate is almost a must if you gonna screen something at the cinema IMO. C300 fall short on that one. But straight to Blu ray or DVD is more or less ok.

I also agree that raw is raw... Term wise. But in the industry it's not. Red-raw and BMC-raw is totaly different.

@RRRR I have talked with many that believe BMC is the do it all camera. So they want to self of their other cameras. I for one believe that is a mistake for most users. Even if you are pro or not. It's a good thing to lay down a couple of honest advises to those who get blinded by the numbers. IMHO the c300 is a much more robust camera for most types of work. Same with the GH2 for that manner. 12bit, prores, dnxhd and raw means option. But not better for everything.

I agree that you can most likely can use a BMC side by side with a alexa, IQ wise. But that's another subject. I'm talking about user groups for a 3k camera that is basically a raw camera with a prores and dnxhd option...many of those will not be pros. The revolution is that the layman can now own a digital cinema camera. Alexa was never or will not be that.

You don't get worse storage issue with RED, that's not true. You get worse storage issue with BMC raw even though it's only 2,5k (25/24p). If you don't know the numbers, than you are going in for a big surprise. prores and dnxhd is the only option you get to be close to RED's numbers. I love the BMC for what it is. Its a revolution. But the raw format it throws out is sadly a dinosaur. It's visually almost no difference between a 1:1 signal and a 3:1-5:1 quality compression like the redcodec. Speaking of cats and dogs. It's like trying to listen to those super high/low frequencies in uncompressed sound that even dogs and cats struggle to hear. Why waste storage on that?. the guys behind Prometheus chose 5:1 compression to save storage. I believe those guys are pros. But again , I love that we get an option, I will most likely fill up several of terabytes with this camera and e enjoy the footage. Its great that they put in Prores and dnxhd for longer takes. Hopefully IQwise it will not be far from raw.

please don't drag the Alexa into this.. That's a very expensive equipment that only a handful of people can afford. Believe me, people who buy/rent an Alexa do not concern about disk space. It's a totally other ball game. In that matter it's not ridicules to discus hard-drives when it comes to the BM camera. The reason is a big user group which will consist of many amatures and hobbyist. I don't believe for a second that most users in here are using an all I (150mbit) patch for theyr gh2 as an all rounder.. And there are many pros in this forum I believe. File size do matter considering who's going to use this camera. That's why danyyel tell me to mention prores.. Most guys in here know that BM raw is not going to work in the length, for that we need something clever like red-raw like with the scarlet.

People who use their cameras to film cats or dogs in their back yard (or other stuff in their spare time) won´t have any use for the bmd cam. Nor the c300. But for small production companies the BMD replaces the need to rent an Alexa / other high end camera in a lot of cases.. and can function as a b-cam in the cases where you actually spend on Alexa / other high end camera rent. So while you think it´s far fetched to drag "the Alexa into this.." it really isn´t. Mind, with a RED you get worse storage issues, even if it´s more compressed (we´re talking about 4k/5k footage).

So you see, it´s not very far fetched. For people who do this for a living (even low end stuff) it´s absolutely ridiculous to talk about disk storage as a reason to shun the bmd cam.

Mind, it was you who forgot to mention the possibility to record prores, dnxhd and was up in the air about how limited use the bmd cam would have.

It´s not a cam that I would use on any assignment, but that is the case with all other videocameras as well. For cinematic, corporate work or similar it´s a lot of bang for buck.

Gunleik Groven (one of the best RED specialists from Scandinavia) made a test through the whole chain including grading, where one version went from RED via DPX (massive space) and the other one via ProRes 4444 (decent requirements). You couldn't spot the difference.

It's more about habits than common sense…

@sicovdplas

Most of this was shot with Leica R primes. Also some EF-S.

http://johnbrawley.wordpress.com/2012/10/19/handheld-with-a-bmcc-behind-the-scenes-with-puberty-blues/

Super 16 lenses won't cover the BMCC sensor. Cropping to 2.35 wont help.

jb

@fix

Do you guys really believe that he is trying to promote the c300 by intentional screw up the picture on the BMC? Please get serious, this I comedy :)

Well, I cannot obviously be certain about it... but look at what we know:

• His first BMC video was great and exposed properly, looked real good

• Second video was very obviously miss-exposed... plus, had weird unpleasant framing that he claims was intentional (yet we never see on anything else)

• Keeps on mentioning how this was a job better suited to a C300 non-stop

• Canon affiliate

This video regardless of camera, was NOT on par with his other stuff. There was nothing in this shoot that a 1600iso camera with a good f1.4 couldn't have exposed for properly... and I do allot of work in shitty conditions like that. Like I said, I'm not calling him out on it... just looking at what's on the table.

That being said, even if this was just a bit of an honest mess-up, and I really hope it is, things like these DO happen ALL THE TIME in the corporate/marketing world. Stop being so naive. If you really believe everyone in a position of marginal-fame or interest, in a industry, truly has your best interests at heart... and isn't just trying to sell you crap... you're in for one hell of a bad time. Look at sports for craps sake, you do good work, get to a position of recognition, then a company pays you to use and talk about their crap. You think Tiger Woods really loves Nike and Gatorade that much? Oldest marketing tactic in the book.

My rule of thumb is... that once a company gives someone a camera for a "first review"... stop watching their stuff. They've 90% of the time partnered with this person by now.

So please another tme you want to dish the camera find another subject. Blackmagic is a very smart company or perhaps I should say, a company that just does not want to screw its customers. Perhaps because I come from photography, I really cannot comprehend the dinosaur level of thinking of the video camera industry and its ussers.

haha yes, +1. It's absurd that some flavor of 2k RAW isn't a standard available on EVERY professionally-targeted video device today in the $2000-$5000 price bracket. The fact that 8-bit mpeg-2 files can appear in a $15,000 camera... and not get laughed of the market... is just crazy. It's easy to see that allot of people don't want the BMCC to be successful. It disrupts allot of people's business models and sets a new standard in price/feature marketplace. Great for new guys, very bad for the established.

BTW... does anyone remember when DSLRs were first getting really popular... and every "professional" said that they were unusable because they could not shoot to RAW? Now, all the sudden (because you can get it in a $3,000 camera), RAW is for amateurs who don't understand storage costs? :)

Nice work by Filippo Chiesa. I would prefer a more exposed picture out of Adobe Camera Raw than what Filippo went with, but to have the power to develop the picture as you want must be nice.

A lot of people still transcode their dslr footage before editing.. shooting native prores or dnxhd will save a LOT of time for them.

I see very few people complain about the output from an alexa, even if all output formats consume a lot of disk space.

c300 might have a very pleasant image, but it´s still a very expensive camera for what it does. It´s also quite silly to talk about disk space / prices and cost of post work in relation to a camera, which if you can afford it, sure as hell you´ll be able to afford a few hundred bucks for hard-drives (what is the price per project? Nothing in the big scheme of things) and either have both time and money to put into careful / powerful post work or record time-saving formats (prores/dnxhd).

@fix it costs to compress RAW, money and CPU. If we want to, we can use Cineform on import if you want to save space.

Overall cost of ownership is definitely higher. But even recording ProRes 422HQ / DNxHD provides much more manageable options, and keeps costs down.

That BMC footage looks glorious. I can't believe that a camera like this is actually within reach. I have to say the Filippo Chiesa film does a much better job of showing what the BMC can do than the PB documentary. I think that was just too much of a stretch to use the BMC that way. That was clearly something the C300 was better suited for.

@bwhitz

It's possible, but I'm leaning towards a mistake that he won't confess up to. Have you seen Filippo Chiesa's latest footage? Best footage I think I've seen yet.

@bannedindv - sorry for my rather direct manner earlier in the thread. Politics and wine are strange bedfellows when carousing on the internets. IOW, Politics put me in a bad place and the wine loosened the tongue. Apologies.

In the end and after a lot of thinking I will actually wait for the ACTIVE MFT mount... if it comes. The camera looks amazing but in the end, I would struggle in the really wide shots because of my glass collection (I have the Olympus 9-18 lens on my wide end). So either I would have my GH2 by the hand and just set the aperture in the GH2, remove the lens an mount it on BMCC or to change all my glass to Manual would cost me alot. What are the best (and cheap) options for the MFT mount, for wide manual lens?