Official Low GOP topic, series 5

Daegor

thougts2uk +1

thougts2uk

@daegor what do you mean +1

Kihlian

@bkmcwd Sorry where did you see the stripped noise? The Sedna on the 25p HBR mode is the less sharp of all 3. Looks like the image is out of focus in confrontation with the Gop3zilla.

flaschus

@thougts2uk

hahha... i understand your confusion,

at this point it is all trial and what YOU like best!

they all have strengths and weaknesses alike...

(for example i use 1 gop on traveling shots, 3 gop on stix.)

and each DP shoots different and likes COMPLETELY different stuff.

As we all know by now...

duartix

@Kihlian, from the screeshots: Gop3Sedna looks much sharper than Gop3ZillaTowi. SednaAQ20 has terrible horizontal interlacing artifacts.

Kihlian

@thougts2uk I´m still looking too to the "mother" of all settings, but with all this development at the moment it will take time.. First you shoot on 25p or 24p? GOP1 saves all I frames like full still images, longer GOP have p and B frames who only stores the movement from the I frames. GOP1 take more space to save. On 24p GOP1 works good, on 25p for now longer GOP settings looks better than GOP1. Hope this helps a little bit..

bkmcwd

@thougts2uk

I can reply only to these questions.

"What advantages does GOP3 have?"

This is being able to use the simple more BIG I frame.

"Which is the best GOP3ZILLA patch at the moment? I am so confused with v2.0, v4.2, v4.11, v2.1??"

It is GOP3ZILLA_V2.0 or GOP3ZILLA_V2.1. I am not sure which is better. It is because character is different. While V2.0 is somewhat weak on a high definition scene, it becomes the highest image quality on the usual scene. V2.1 is strong on a high definition scene, and it becomes somewhat good image quality on the usual scene. What difference comes out of an actual place needs to be tested.

However, these are same except 24p.

Swiss_Boy

@Kihlian @bkmcwd Hey, most of the time i always use driftwood's hack but i'm in a 25p Land so i just found out in these posts that 25p is better with longer gop like u just said. I also use 24p from time to time so the only difference between "GOP3ZILLA_V2.1" and "GOLGOP3-13_V4.2" are low light and indoor shooting? what about the new Gop3zilla with sedna matrix?

bkmcwd

@Kihlian

As @duartix said, SednaAQ20 has terrible horizontal interlacing artifacts.

Please see upper part of a screen.

Kihlian

@bkmcwd Yes, all the shoot has terrible artefacts, I thought you mean a specific part of the image. From your post above you mean that a GOP3 setting have bigger I frames than a GOP1? Also GOP3 have I frames with more information? I try to understand more the AVCHD..

bkmcwd

@Kihlian

That's right in principle. The big I frame also has much amount of information.

The reason I adhere to 3GOP all the time is right.

Kihlian

@Swiss_Boy FOR ME, and only for me! At the moment the Gop3zilla settings with @towi modification (you can find it some page back on this topic) or the same with the sedna matrix are the best for 25p at the moment. Don´t now if when I shoot pans is better the first, have to make more tests...

towi

@Kihlian

"I think towi is working on NaturalV2.0 for optimize it in 25p, hope to see a setting from him soon"

Actually I don't. bkmcwd's original Natural V2.0 settings work great for me at 24p and 25p! Although FSH/50i streams sometimes show an uneven cadence the footgage still looks good. When I have to shoot high IQ 50i I'll use my 24p25p-NINE patch anyway...

I am now testing GOP3ZILLA (V2.1). With Driftwood's Sedna A matrix applied GOP3ZILLA doesn't work for me at all ... the streams show heavy irregularities and the blacks look smeared (as if heavy noise reduction has been applied to the blacks). This goes for use in conjunction with SanDisk 95MB/s 32GB.

(just to be clear... when I am talking about the Sedna matrix here I am of course referring to the use of a matrix originally designed for other settings. Driftwood's original Quantum X Sedna A settings look georgeous at 24h!)

flaschus

@towi... delete those quantizers when u put in sedna matrix. and POW!!!! atleast 4me

towi

@flaschus

what do you mean by "delete"? Uncheck "Initial Quantizer" and "Quantizer"?

edit:

@Kihlian & @flaschus

I am under the impression you are using my modified "natural v1.11" with the Sedna A matrix. In my latest comments I was referring to "natural v2.0" and "GOP3ZILLA v2.1"

gorgal

"all the shoot has terrible artefacts - Sedna AQ20"

I shot Sedna A with AQ1 and also noticed those 'interlacing' artifacts. They dissapear after i rendered in Vegas. I transcode with Neoscene and that file has the same artifacts as the original MTS.

flaschus

@ towi ... yea.. i modify in notepad, lol.

here is my sedna B w.gop3zilla2.1 set.. 2k lapsermode! see if it works 4u?

Swiss_Boy

So if i got this right GOP3ZILLA_2.1 or GOP3ZILLA_V2.0 will produce more details in daylight scene than for examples the latest gop1 Patches(sedna,orion) but gop1 will be better in low light and better for postproduction(grading)? i'm talking about 24p H, also GOP3ZILLA will handle motion better?

driftwood

The interlacing problems a lot of you are experiencing are simply not there in a proper edit NLE. Don't judge a video by a mts player. EVER.

towi

@flaschus

"here is my sedna B w.gop3zilla2.1 set.. 2k lapsermode! see if it works 4u?"

I've made my own GOPZILLA 2.1 & Sedna A. I was referring to that setting with my comment above: With Driftwood's Sedna A matrix applied GOP3ZILLA doesn't work for me at all ... the streams show heavy irregularities and the blacks look smeared (as if heavy noise reduction has been applied to the blacks). This goes for use in conjunction with SanDisk 95MB/s 32GB.

flaschus

@towi

i know, your set has the quantizers on it still. i was showing how i deleted.

towi

@flaschus

okay. I've also tried a modified GOPZILLA setting with AQ1 & Sedna A matrix ... exactly like yours (also tried with AQ2). Streams did not look healthy in my tests...

Oedipax

Everyone watching footage on a computer monitor - check it out on a good TV! You might say computer displays are good at showing every little imperfection in the image so you know objectively where you stand, and TVs take what they're given and present you with something that's more pleasant to look at. It's easy to lose sight of the fact that this footage looks even better than we're used to seeing :)

towi

@bkmcwd

your latest GOP table settings really do wonders - even GOP3ZILLA V2.1 survives on SanDisk 30MB/s cards.

In "Natural V2.0" the 1080p24 GOP table is set to: 1, 3, 0, 0, 34, 0

wheras in GOP3ZILLA 2.1 the 1080p24 GOP table is set to: 1, 3, 0, 0, 32, 0

May I ask why "34" in Natural?

Stray

@Swiss_Boy You're pretty much right, but you'll have absolutely no problems with GOP3ZILLA in post at all, as the codec maintains the quality easily. Also it does hold up 'okay' in lowlight too (though I don't think it does as well as the GOP1 Orion 4B does in lowlight). Lowlight GOP3 is what bkmcwd made GOLGOP3 for though. As for getting better motion from GOP1 over GOP3..well.. thats a subjective 'thing' that has lead to heated discussions here before. I think you'll be hard pressed to really notice a difference in motion per se. But speaking for myself GOP1 has a different 'quality' in its look and its not as simple as saying that its because it renders motion better.

When it comes to grading and CC work in post, no matter which settings you're using, two jobs that pretty much always need doing are; 1. Getting rid of the green tint (most noticeable in the greys) and 2. Getting rid of some of the blues in shadows. Then its fuck about with the red channel time ;) Just felt like putting that information out there. Of course, its all still a matter of personal taste and the look you want.

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