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A knife and two bazookas to a gun fight
  • 148 Replies sorted by
  • @rigs sorry man, didn't mean to be obtruse (I was propably more blunt than necessary), but really, I think it is a very common thought-lapse. Just look at comments concerning firmware development (for the gh2) or comments concerning what specs gh3 "should" have.

    Specs are never enough. Yet, plenty put plenty of cameras to good use. Yet, the gh2 is a very good, and a very useful camera. Maybe there is even a bit more to get from it but that would be a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

    Like I said, Quality is getting cheaper. The f65 is a good example as it weighs in at $65000 and has top, top specs all around. The "best" (here I discount a horses for courses principle) camera used to be more expensive.

  • @rigs "The GH2 is good for what it can do. But it does not compare to most of the higher end camera's"

    Yes it does. Look at the images posted, lol. Comparing is EXACTLY what it does. It's not better than a Scarlet, but it sure as heck compares to one.

    The GH2 is at the point where the audience won't be able to tell the difference between it... or an Epic or Scarlet. The same couldn't be said about an HVX, EX3, or another "professional" camcorder. And that's pretty special.

    I'd still love a Epic for the frame-rates and added flexibility though...

  • "The GH2 is at the point where the audience won't be able to tell the difference between it... or an Epic or Scarlet."

    yeah, whatever, this is getting silly

  • Hey people, how many lines of resolution can a 1080p frame have?

    If you are making a slow roast / slow stew, it would be pretty stupid to use Kobe Beef, and most people would not be able to tell the difference for beef 1/20th of the price. (a Person who knows what he/she's doing will no doubt find a better piece of meat that is considerably cheaper to achieve a better result). Only Kobe, or other high quality matured Beef (certain cuts) and the right method of cooking them will give steaks that melt in your mouth though.

    :S

  • Like I said I'm not bashing the GH2 - I use them allot, The reality is the sensor is noisy, even at iso 160, it has compression artifacts (look at the red and blue chanels) plus colour banding issues from an 8bit stream. Sure viewers could care less of our end results, but you won't fool any DOP, GD or editor into thinking that the GH2 is on par with the scarlet or any cameras that offer better performance. The GH cameras are a great bang for the buck and sure there are some post work arounds such as neat video that can help with the noise a bit. But if you want cleaner, smoother images to work with, you need to consider other options. Lets not ignore these realities, I thought this community was in search of trying to make things better, that we'd strive to make the GH2 as good as it can get. Don't ignore these facts and place it in the same league as others. The above details that may seem minute to some, but they are all are very important non the less.

  • Technically no of course they are not in the same league. Creatively, yes they are. If your filmmaking idea cannot overcome the difference between 8bit and 10bit then you really do have to look in the mirror.

  • I'm excited to see this video, is it already posted somewhere?

  • @rigs Just the amount of effort expensed in defence of Scarlet vs GH2 is proving the fact this sub $1K camera ( hacked ) is a good contender for Scarlet and other Over $15K cameras. This fact is all over the community around the world. If the superiority of Scarlet is that obvious then why pages and pages of discussions and debate !? You don't see any comparison done between AF101 and Scarlet for valid reasons. You don't see forums discussing the possibilities of comparison between FS100 and Scarlet although FS100 is better in low light. If you have to try this hard to discredit the GH2's image quality matching Scarlet then perhaps the GH2 has a strong case against Scarlet and that is the reality. To be fair all said was for the domain of outputting to small screens.

  • I just thought it would be fun to see, really.

  • @eoshd I`m not talking creativily nor is anyone who thinks the GH2 is in the same league as red. Im sure you must have created some stunning images with the GH2 limitations. I suspect all your green screen and compositing along with grading must be awesome. I dont have to look in a mirror! I only have to look at the image that I want to capture and try to get the best out of it. Sometimes that means I will need more than what the GH2 offers. I dont pretend its as good as you or others think it is. I use it for whats its worth doing and nothing more. I think this is a endless debate for the GH2 FAN BOY CLUB. Lets end this now and let Davids thread remain for his own discoveries.

    The End

  • Guys.... stop... this.... flame, please.

  • @rigs, It's so interesting that you brought the Scarlet fanboys club here and it's twice pleading for others to let go of this to remain for " Dave's own discoveries " after blurbing a bunch of adverts for Scarlet or sniping others for image quality, green screen, compositing and grading. It might help if one look at ones self in the mirror and ask why the heck I should spend $20,000 for a camera that the image is almost matched by a sub $1K camera. You are right about one thing and that is the endless debate the Scarlet fanboys are going to have to prove their points against this little giant called GH2 ( hacked ). As a matter of fact we should all promote Dave's research and hard work to be known by all shooters' communities. This is too valuable to be just left for his own discoveries. This is far from the end. We just started.

    Thanks David. I am looking forward to seeing this comparison video.

  • I agree with @rigs

    And I own a GH2, 5D, manage two RED MX's and an Epic (which is sitting in my lap right now, GH2 is on the footstool getting ready for some ISO testing). You're out of your damned mind if you think a GH2 + Hack is anywhere in the same league as Scarlet or Epic.

    What IS true is that it gets pretty close @ 2K to Epic, but you only use 2K for slow mo on Epic.

    The only fanboyism going on here is for the GH2, typical David vs Goliath. Get over it: you don't own an Epic, and you don't own anything close to it. You do own a damned good image for the price, one that should get you to wherever you need to go, and it will not make up for the lack of actually committing to creating content.

    If I were David I probably wouldn't bother showing any tests, one way or another someone will say he did something wrong and it just opens up stupid conversations like these.

  • The fact that you can even compare images/video from a 700$ camera to 1OK$ or 25k$ one is...well....that's the win in my book not a fanboy thing ....would I rather have an Epic?....F*CK YES I WOULD!!!!....but what I can do with this amazing little camera I WAS able to afford and own is mind blowing....shooting a feature right now and I think you guys will be impressed by how well this little cam holds up. ---My only fanboy-ism is to show the guys around Phoenix that GH2 is a much better tool for video than the 7d's they all use....

  • @kholi, Here it is again ! Another attempt to put a wet blanket on a fire that burning wild and open. What do you mean by " if I were David I probably wouldn't bother showing any tests .. " The only other Scarlet fanboy on this thread is also trying to keep David's test as " Dave's own discoveries ". What is it !? You guys are getting instructions emails from the head-office !? If I where you i would've put the Epic on the footstool and Keep the GH2 on the desk. But again that's me - i'm a GH2 FANMAN. In your own words [ What IS true is that it gets pretty close @ 2K to Epic, but you only use 2K for slow mo on Epic ] all I need is 2K and thank you for verifying that my footage out of GH2 ( hacked ) gets pretty close to a $20K and $60K camera and I just can - not -get - over - it. Thank you, this comes from a RED fanboy means a lot to me! If I were David I would conduct this test to the best of my ability and hold the results high in the sun for everybody to see.

  • @010101

    I mean that it's a waste on people who think that they're getting everything for nothing. RED isn't a 2K acquisition system, it's a 4 or 5K acquisition system, and no your 700.00 camera can't hang with RED downrezzed from 4K or 5K to 2K.

    Period.

    I'm not a fanboy of anything, that's why I have and use SEVERAL CAMERAS HIGH END AND LOW END. I don't get stuck using a 700.00 camera when I don't have or want too, and when I want too it's a damned good image. A perfect substitute, and couldn't (wouldn't) ask for more--aside from a larger sensor and better dr.

    Ignorance is dangerous, for you, not me.

    GH2 users are getting worse than RED users... just smaller/cheaper penises.

  • I appreciate David's work and think it constructive to use the Scarlet as a solid benchmark against which improvements in the GH2 can be made... Am I missing something here?

    Thanks David!

  • @010101 were not fan boys - just a realists. If you dont want to understand why there are better options then the GH2 and laugh at anyone who uses anything else. You must truely believe that the GH2 camera is almost as good - and thats great that your -almost - is good enough for you. Its just not almost as good enough for everyone. I had enough of this sand box - OUT

  • @kholi "I don't get stuck using a 700.00 camera when I don't have or want too"

    I don't understand why you're bringing price into this. Why not just say "I like using RAW images when possible" or "the GH2's compression is not the best for what I do". The fact that you're even bringing up price, makes it a penis showing contest now from your end...

    The GH2 may not be a head-to-head contender with the Epic or Scarlet. But it sure beats the pants of those F900's and ginormous HPX's from yesteryear... and those are still like $50,000 a pop. I know a few people who would even say that the GH2 has a better overall-image and look than the original Red One. Technology is slowly braking down the price-factor. If you're going to argue about cameras these days... it's probably better to use other merits besides price.

  • I'm a big GH2 fan but I'll put it on eBay as soon as there is something that might meet my needs better. The GH2 is my personal camera that I always can carry with me. It needs to be affordable, flexible and provide good enough quality footage to use it for professional work. The GH2 is a dream come true. Since 2002 I was looking for this camera. I also liked the 7D but the rolling shutter jello and the aliasing was a big let down in many situations. Those issues are not gone but I can control them better.

    The Nikon D4 might be the next big thing. However, it would be to expensive for me. If the D4 is really that good, I'll rent it for the shallow DOF stuff.

    In 2011 I had productions where we used REDs, EX1s and Canon 5Ds. The GH2 was only used by my self except for one shoot, where the guy I hired owned a GH2 and I agreed on using it. There had been no shoot where I had the feeling that the choice of camera was a wrong decision.

    I guess "fanboy" is defined by someone who gets aggressive when some one claims his beloved gear is shit. Well, the GH2 is still shit when it comes to certain situations but most of the time it simply rules.

  • @kholi,

    " Will minus intellect constitutes vulgarity." Arthur Schopenhauer

    • For $700. GH2 -Hacked , a sane person can get almost as good of an image as a $20K ~ $50K image for small screen display. I consider this as a lot for very little investment - Dave's tests are going to show this.
    • Your admission to the fact that the GH2 could be considered " A perfect substitute " to the " SEVERAL HIGH END "cameras is INVALUABLE. After all you are a self proclaimed expert in such matters. Thank you as i am appreciating this substitution in quality. Especially with a small investment in comparison to the small fortune many people have expensed for those HIGH END cameras. I assume you meant RED cameras by that.
    • I'm not sure how you consider yourself safe from the dangers of Ignorance. Nevertheless i agree with you that ignorance is dangerous. The awareness of obtainable almost matching quality of RED cameras with GH2-Hacked saved me a lot of money.
    • Open minded RED users are the best in this industry. GH2 users match that crowd proudly. There are just a few bad pricks gathered around the RED community with their penises in their hands running around comparing sizes and girth of each other, jumping up and down and making a lot of nonsense noise. Those people are making the big stink out of every little thing that may be considered an insult to the RED as the holy grail of the imaging industry. Other than that the RED users are just that, bunch of people discussing matters about a camera system.
    • Did you get that Epic off your lap yet or still that scene is being shot !?

    Stick around and check out Dave's test you may learn something. Perhaps you could teach others something you haven't thus far. Fear not.

  • UPDATE: I've re-uploded the frame grabs - now @ 1920x1080. The GH2 grab is unscaled. The Scarlet grab (which was shot @ 4K) had to be scaled and reduced from 16-bit to 8-bit. So, we're unfortunately throwing away a lot of data for the comparison.

    OK - I've shot a few more tests, this time with the GH2 on smooth -2,-2,-2,-2. These are frame grabs scaled for upload. No post.

    GH2 image

    Scarlet image

    GH2_windsock.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
    Scarlet_windsock.png
    1920 x 1080 - 2M
  • Wow, holly crap. Is Panasonic making Red's sensors? :)

    Thanks again for all your work David!

  • are these full res grabs? both seem to be too small for 1920x1080

  • Great Job David, I am a bit concerned with the shadows on the Horizon. After grading those areas might flatten to no details. This is a fascinating side by side comparison. I think with careful grading possibilities are very exciting.

    Thanks David for this.