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GH5 Panasonic camera, from anticipation to love or hate
  • 2013 Replies sorted by
  • Fingers crossed it will be free!

  • @lmackreath definately. To put it in perspective, when you shoot Prores LT in UHD, it's around 400Mbit (30p is a little over, 24 and 50p under). Only that Prores is an old DCT based codec and h264 way more efficiant; I have no doubts that this upgrade will boost the cam a lot.

  • So do we think the 400mb firmware update with give enough head room finally to have a cleaner 10 bit vlog image internally recorded?

  • My experience is: using external recorders (ninja assassin) the GH4's V-Log colour and other 'issues' (magenta blotches on faces macro blocking etc) vanish when using 422 8 bit externally. Which to me says it's more to do with the h264 encoder than bit depth. 8 bit 422 pro res V-Log (even LT) looks much better on skin than GH4 internal V-Log. 10 bit doesn't make as much difference - apart from when grading heavily.

  • Do you think is it best option to upgrade to GH5 from G6? Or is there anything better? I want mostly 180fps function and better video stabilization. Thanks

  • What do you think about 180fps function?

  • Great.. by word on release date on these v60 cards and price point?

  • @aldolega

    I'll second that notion that implementation can really make the difference. The FS700 is another example of how surprisingly good low bit rate can look. Two of our shooters use them for A cam. We shoot a lot of action sports and it's never disappointed IMHO. True - we're not doing extreme grades, but fairly standard color correction with vary levels of pushing the image around to get what we're after. I'm impressed at what that camera is capable of. If it wasn't for the awful form factor and overall ergonomics, I would've flown it more. I've preordered the GH5 not because it's night and day better than the GH4. But it's enough of an upgrade to justify the money in my book. It'll pay for itself quickly. Plus I'm already invested in MFT glass from GH2 onward. So the investment was minimal.

  • It's fine if you nail exposure and color 100% in camera but will be far from sufficient with any meaningful change in color correction. This is the upside of the conclusion from C5D - but not fully explained as such by them. 100mbps-150mbps is enough for a video capture that won't be graded but not quite enough for something that's meant for post (like a LOG image)

  • @bannedindv

    I shoot mostly action, at 30p or faster, with fast camera movements, often with a deep DOF. The kind of shooting that puts the most strain on a bitrate-starved IPB codec. So I am similarly, but less conclusively, skeptical of 150mb/s being enough, as I was of 100mb/s being enough for the GH4; fortunately, the GH4 was mostly adequate in my 2.5yrs of shooting with it, so I certainly hope the GH5 does the same.

    Breaking it down by bitrate per "quadrant" isn't 100% accurate, though. With modern IPB codecs there isn't always necessarily a need for a 1:1 increase in bitrate in ratio to the resolution (i.e. 4 times the bitrate for UHD over HD). @LPowell or @Driftwood would be able to explain why this is is (scaling, quantization, etc), as I am no codec expert.

    Also, depending on the implementation of the codec, 37.5mb/s can be plenty for HD (for most applications), look at how good the C100 internal footage looks at only 24mb/s. Compare that to a $400 camcorder that also does 24mb/s and there is a massive difference (and I don't mean from lens or sensor performace- just compression).

    So even if the extra overhead for 4:2:2 and 10-bit (versus 4:2:0/8-bit) means the GH5 150mb/s is, per quadrant, no better than a c100... that's still pretty good. Not great, not amazing, probably not capable of holding extreme grades, but pretty good. And I hope that it will be better, as 37.5mb/s is 50% more than 24mb/s, and I don't think 10-bit and 4:2:2 need that much extra bandwidth.

  • @lmackreathlmackreath

    For 150mb/s you would need the same cards as a GH4... "U3" class... which guarantees a minimum continuous write speed of 30MB/s (150mb/s is about 19MB/s).

    Some U1 cards that are fast enough do work in the GH4 though... for instance I used the 64GB Extreme Pro 95MB/s cards (the ones everyone used for GH2 hacks, and the Pocket camera) in my GH4 for 2.5 years with no problems at all.

    For the 400mb/s mode, which is 50MB/s, you would need the new "V60" cards, which have a minimum continuous write speed of 60MB/s. Those are supposed to be widely available this summer.

  • Here's the thing : 150mbit fixed bitrate for 4K is not really enough. That works out to 37.5mbit for each 1080p quadrant of a 4K video - so just think of how compressed and nasty 1080p is at 37.5mbit. Secondly - if you still only have a 150mbit fixed codec, and you record 8bit input to it, and then compare 10bit input into same codec... guess what... you're actually destroying more data or throwing more data away to fit into the same bitrate. Third - Sebastian doesn't want to admit his skintone is blotchy. Sorry dude. Most of us who get too much sun exposure or have just come in from the winter cold have blotchy skin. Although his shots look like he might have been eating spaghetti. I'm far from a Panasonic Apologist. I despise despise despise the gh4. James Miller gh5 footage looks awesome (externally recorded). We can partially blame Panasonic and C5D for the results that C5D is getting - trying to cram more bits into a fixed amount of bit rate will always yield less than perfect results (barring some magic algorithm). Suffice to say Log 10bit is probably best handled with an external recorder and still requires careful treatment of white balance and exposure.

  • One of the best film that made history in regards to DR and tonality (Kodak VISION3) is about 13 stops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=116&v=Njg2i99fVzk

    I don't think there are any problems in regards to the Gh5 image quality (resolution, color, DR etc), only user associated problems; and this is valid for most cameras nowadays. :)

  • Ok so what sd card speeds are we going to need? for both the 150mbs and looking forward to the 400mbs in the summer?

  • Back in 2010, I saw this movie. Forgettable at best.

    The interesting thing is that it was shot, in anamorphic, with the Arri D21. That camera had 10-11 stops of DR. Doesn't look too shabby to me. I know, arri color science and all that. But still. You don't need 16 stops of DR to make a good picture.

  • @markr041 Depends a bit on what you do and what you want. I don't see the appeal of banding when material is slightly pushed, or all the wobble when you decide to pan a tripod a tad faster. When you need to work on footage a bit more, the benefits of higher quality material are more than helpful.

    The first RED recorded 9-10 stops of DR and people went crazy how great it was for digital, and graded it to look great for cinema. But of course, anything under 13 stops is videoish and not cinematic... Hopefully one day we find words that are not as pedantic and generalized though :)

  • @markr041 The GH5 has around 12+ stops of DR, quite good I'd say. Together with the 10 bits color depth and 4K from resizing it makes a wonderful image.

  • "The A7s II also features a low coloursubsampling and bitdepth, alongside horrific rolling shutter. High DR in low bitdepth is no fun."

    Low DR with 10bit 4:2:2 is visibly ugly (videoish) compared with high DR and 8bit 4:2:0, though it may be less "fun".

  • @Vesku The 4K also looks very good, not quite as detailed as the Sony A6500 but but very good nonetheless. Skin tones are very good IMO.

  • GH4 vs GH5 in 1080P in DPREVIEW

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    1772 x 813 - 324K
  • The A7s II also features a low coloursubsampling and bitdepth, alongside horrific rolling shutter. High DR in low bitdepth is no fun.

  • I preordered mine on the jessops website the minute it became available after the official announcement from Panasonic on Jan 4th so would like to think would get one pretty early

  • @markr041 because I heard a rumor that the new FF RGBW 15MP sensor will not have IBIS. Something to do with heat dissipation. But as rumors go it could be incorrect so the camera will have it. Just waiting for the real specs to make a decision. The articulating vari-angle screen on the GH series however is hard to replace.

  • My first post here so be nice. I took my nifty fifty (Canon FD 50mm 1.4) to a GH5 demo day today, because I know the images from that lens so well from the GH4, GH3 and GH2 (with Driftwood's awesome Moon T7 hack). Apart from all the talk about 10bit 4:2:2 and 4K 60p, there were 2 major things that made me pre-order the GH5, which are probably worth sharing here.

    First, the 5-axis sensor stabilisation is jaw-droppingly good on the GH5. I dialled in the focal length of the lens in the stabiliser settings menu, and suddenly I could shoot handheld with my 100mm equivalent Canon FD lens from the 1970s for the first time ever. That sure put a smile on my face! I only use vintage manual lenses and the newer Voigtlander Noktons, so for me the new floating sensor in the GH5 is a total holy grail.

    And second, the Panasonic rep said he'd been at a 2 hour-long Powerpoint talk about the GH5 recently, presented by none other than Nick Driftwood, in which Nick had said that the GH5 shadow detail is clean enough up to 6400 ISO. I pressed him on this point and he promised me that's what Nick had said. @driftwood Did he get it right?

    The bad news is (here in the UK at least) that if you're wanting to get your paws on a GH5, Panasonic are telling their reps that there have been so many pre-orders the factory can't make them quick enough, so any orders placed now will effectively be on back-order with expected availability in May. So the smart thing to do is pre-order from the smallest local camera shop you can find, rather than the big guys like CVP or ProAV, as your local camera shop is more likely to be able to fulfil your pre-order from the first or second batch of deliveries towards the end of March and middle of April. And you're more likely to go to heaven if you support your local independent camera shop of course.

  • "However if Sony and the a7s III incorporate it I might just as well get that one."

    The Sony A7s ii has IBIS and better DR than the GH4 or 5 and is better in low light than the GH4 or GH5. Why wait for any A7s iii?