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Transcoding and release thoughts for huge bitrate avchd
  • What are people using for output with, for example, the 176mb mts file.
    Say in adobe, right now, I'm putting the clips in a 108024p avchd sequence file. Is this my best choice?

    Then through media encoder I output the edited file to say, h264 with maxiumn render quality.
    I up the bitrate(though I'm unsure this actually does much) a little to say, avg 40mb/ max 50mb.

    The final files look great, but I have to wonder, since the orginal file is beyond avchd spec at 176mb,
    is there a better way with adobe cs 5.5 to retain better quality? It definitely holds up to grading way better
    than the stock camera settings.
  • 36 Replies sorted by
  • @kholi "why wouldn't you do it during recording? Say a redundancy situation where you're still shooting to the card, and at the same time recording to 4:2:2 specifically for VFX/Keying work? Is there an issue with that?"

    Boy, is there!

  • @bubba

    That's interesting... why wouldn't you do it during recording? Say a redundancy situation where you're still shooting to the card, and at the same time recording to 4:2:2 specifically for VFX/Keying work? Is there an issue with that?

    I should test with a 4:2:2 external recorder just for this type of production. Would be another reason not to break 4K/5K out for extremely low budget situations... although if it's just green screen then it may be unnecessarily crippling.

  • If you desire for some reason, you COULD play the footage out of the camcorder into MXO2 using the HDMI cable, and then you would be capturing to the Matrox MPEG-2 I-Frame HD codec with 4:2:2 color. I have found this to give better results when doing green screen chroma keying, since the GH2 uses 4:2:0 color. Capturing as Matrox 4:2:2 does provide cleaner key edges.

  • @Swiss_Boy I puzzled over Vimeo exports a while before giving up and just enabling download of the original. In terms of streaming reliability, most of the time I'd rather watch YouTube 720p than Vimeo 1080p.

  • @LPowell i also do color grading in After effects then export in H.264 20Mbps(target bitrate) - 40Mbps (maximum Bitrate). Then i edit in Premier Pro and export again in H.264 20Mbps(target bitrate) - 40Mbps (maximum Bitrate) from Premier Pro.Is that good to have best quality in Vimeo or should i do it differently with higher bitrate exporting or maybe lower if that won't make a difference?

    I read you were talking about mainconcept but that works only on PC and i have a Mac so do you have any suggestions of plugins to improve the quality or should i just continu like i'm already doing?

    Thanks in advance
  • Mainconcept.
  • @LPowell Thank you soo much Powell appreciate it, I'm trying to render a short clip with mainconcept and it's taking forever let me just add that I'm running on a windows vista system :( should be upgrading tomorrow to win7..
  • @TrackZillas
    If you have a fast workstation, the Mainconcept renderer may be just as fast as the Mercury Engine. If not, go with Mercury.
  • @LPowell Got a quick question about (MainConcept H.264) when your are creating a new project in Premiere Pro CS5 it ask you if you wanna use Mainconcept 5.1 or Mercury Engine for render & playback. From your experience which one is better to use?
  • I'm using Premiere Pro CS5, but exporting via Frameserver to MeGui for x264 encoding. So far I'm happier with the results from this workflow vs the built-in Premiere encoders. Have not tried the Mainconcept Plugin which you can purchase.
  • @stonebat I'm trying it now that thing has enough settings to make my head spin lol..
  • The 176Mbps GOP1 might not need transcoding to intermediate format. Just pure I-frames. But the MainConcept encoder sounds interesting.
  • @LPowell Nice.. please IM me the beta 1080p 24 settings I would greatly appreciate it. That's a nice system you have here..
  • @TrackZillas
    I'm still testing and evaluating the MainConcept H.264 settings - particularly the adaptive quantization features. I'll can IM you a beta 1080p24 settings file to try out in the meantime.

    Color Finesse's full-screen interface is indeed quite heavyweight. It runs fine on my Win7 workstation, though you'd expect it to with a six-core Intel i7, 12GB RAM, and an SSD drive used as a CS5.5 cache disk.
  • Pssst...Mac OS X users 10.6 (snow leopard) and up:
    http://forums.creativecow.net/thread/4/865993

    ProRes without having to buy FCPX. :)
  • @LPowell Color Finesse is a beast use it sometimes on my mac, but the only thing is that it uses so much power that sometimes my computer freezes mind you I'm running on an I7-3.6ghz chip with 12gb of ram. Are you having the same experience?
  • @LPowell Got it now so you bring it the footage in to After Effects for color grading all your footage, than export using MainConcept Encoder 5.1 engine to 10-bit H.264 Wow nice workflow. Do you think you can send me some of the settings your using in your Hi10P custom setting, just got it and I'm a bit confused with all those settings lol... Thank you once again Powell for walking me through your process, and for the great insight.

    GOD Bless
  • @TrackZillas
    Actually, it is the MainConcept plugin's seamless integration that enables me to transcode the footage to H.264 Hi10P as an Export from Premiere Pro, rather than doing it in a separate step beforehand. This allows me to Dynamic Link a clip in a Sequence to an After Effects Composition, which I can then grade using Color Finesse, and apply AE filters to it if desired. Back in Premiere, the footage is automatically replaced by the AE Composition, and I can Export the clip as a 10-bit H.264 file. I can then use the Replace Footage command to replace the original footage with the H.264 footage in the Premiere project.

    While it is possible to simply leave the Dynamic Linked footage in Premiere without Exporting an H.264 version, I find that transcoding it makes it much easier to both manage the footage and preserve Premiere's responsiveness. Once I have a working set of color-graded H.264 footage, I can archive the original footage and make the H.264 files available on the server for editing in projects. This eliminates the chore and confusion of duplicating color-correction settings when reusing footage in multiple sequences.
  • @LPowell thanx a lot for the info, I got one question.. before you import your footage into Premiere you said that you color correct all your footage first & convert to a 10 bit H.264 file is that right, can you explain this process for me once more. I'm learning so much from the little bit of info you have provided to me thank you Powell. I'm about to purchase a license from them today I like what they have to offer.
  • @TrackZillas
    The MainConcept Codec Suite 5.1 plugin for Premiere Pro CS5 provides both decoder and encoder components that are integrated into Premiere's Import and Export modules. When you drag a clip into Premiere, it detects its video format and uses the appropriate decoder from the ones installed in CS5. The decoder will not alter or transcode the clip, it will simply decode it to Premiere's internal workspace.

    When you export a sequence from Premiere, you choose which encoder to use in the Export Settings dialog box. Each type of encoder provides its own individual interface for setting parameters. The MainConcept plugin's H.264 interface provides access to a much wider range of encoding parameters than any of CS5's bundled encoders. You can get a good idea of whether these features will be of value to you by studying the operator manual for the MainConcept Codec Suite 5.1:

    http://downloads.mainconcept.com/CodecSuite5_en.zip
  • @LPowell I got a very important question Perry the (mainconcept codec suite 5.1 Plug) is main purpose is to export video to a final file format right, it does not do anything to the footage when ingested? Finally when exported does it really preserve quality in the final output? Let me know as soon as possible cause I'm thinking on getting it for my system.
  • Thanks for this post, Matt. Very helpful and useful insight.
  • Okay, here are a couple of samples anyway. Prepare to be blown away...

    1.8mbps (6MB!) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=1BH8MI1Z
    This is pushing it a bit, but remember that it's full 1080p! This one rendered at 5.5 frames a second.

    7.3mbps (18MB) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=ES5SHX6B
    This is pretty much ideal in regards to size vs quality. Looks pretty much like the original when watched in motion. This one rendered at 3.5 frames a second.

    17mbps (43MB) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=P1VPQDDA
    This one is indistinguishable from the original, even when paused and pixel peeped. This one rendered at 2 frames a second.

    85mbps (235MB) http://www.megaupload.com/?d=5VDQ7UE5
    This is the ORIGINAL avchd file.

    Best of all, these files are DivX Plus compatible, and can easily be made to Blu-Ray specs too if selected in StaxRip, though they will require muxing afterwards, which is a simple enough process with TSMuxer.
  • I use the staxrip h.264 encoder ui to encode my final stuff, using the 'placebo' render setting (highest quality encoding). Slow as heck to encode (I'm talking 1.5fps on an i7 @4.1GHz), but you can get the bitrate as low as 10mbps (sometimes lower) and it looks NO different from the HUGE .mts 85mbps files that come out of the GH2. Can upload some samples if anyone's interested.
  • Software will soon catch up! :-) Try and get GOP1 to work effectively on a lower bitrate... I believe it will prove very very difficult!