Personal View site logo
Old wide angle lenses (24mm, 28mm) on m43 ?
  • 106 Replies sorted by
  • I put just one more close range sample from the MD 35 f2.8 + Oly 0.8x combination. There is little or no ghosting in the ticker and the text. If I tried to use the Pentacon 30 f3.5 for similar image, there might be ghosting in the ticker and the text due to curved focal plane (supposedly). However, the Pentacon does better when distance to the subject grows and pulls ahead of the MD/Oly combo.

    If I make a very preliminary summary of the 24 and 28 mm lenses that I know, it would be:

    Tokina RMC 24 f2.8 - rather good overall, no major weaknesses. Some barrel distortion and lower contrast at full aperture. Requires hood.

    Minolta MD 28 f2.8 - very sharp even at full aperture, good contrast and no distortion. Bokeh questionable. Little or no resistance to flare from point sources.

    Yashica ML 28 f2.8 - some lack of sharpness at full aperture. Very high contrast. Bokeh questionable. Strong resistance to flare.

    Pentacon 30 f3.5 - supposedly curved focal plane and some ghosting at close range. Strong and strange character otherwise (swirly bokeh etc.).

    Minolta MD 35 f2.8 + Oly 0.8x - good close range and little or no ghosting. Some "bokeh loss" and some barrel distortion. May require stopping down for adequate sharpness. Requires hood (needs to be custom made).

    Sample variations are always possible at this vintage and inexpensive category. Feel free to add your conclusions.

    md35f28oly08pic5.png
    1920 x 816 - 2M
  • I almost can not stop viewing it. The contrast may be a bit on the low side, but this is true for most lenses of similar desing with large front lens. Minolta made a completely different desing for newer MD 20 f2.8 lens, that lens is rare also.

    Today I thought that if the 35 mm focal length is such a sweet thing, why not try to pair it with Olympus 0.8x wide adapter to try to get a 28 mm lens with the characteristics of the 35 mm lens. This thinking obviously has some merit, as you could see from several GH1 video grabs below. Some are ungraded, for some I adjusted curves and levels and sharpened a bit. They are at f4 or f5.6. Host lens is MD 35 f2.8, a flawless performer.

    Some barrel distortion is introduced in the image, but easily corrected (unlike unpleasant bokeh). Side to side sharpness requires stopping down. I can not say if this is better or more cinematic than MD 28 f2.8 at this point, but it does seem to have some of the nice 35 mm characteristics. Close focus images leave little to be desired, "front bokeh" is flawless, "back bokeh" lacks some character.

    md35f28oly08pic1.png
    1440 x 612 - 1M
    md35f28oly08pic2.png
    1920 x 816 - 2M
    md35f28oly08pic3.png
    1920 x 816 - 1M
    md35f28oly08pic4.png
    1920 x 816 - 2M
  • Because you are interested here is some more test footage from the 21mm.

  • It looks good to me, the focal length is a nice mild wide angle. I try to look how things blur out in front of the focus as well as behind the sharp focus. I also try to look if the colors change for out of focus areas when focusing. Certainly would like to see more of the 21 mm and the Minolta 28 f2 at full aperture and stopped down.

    The Pentacon 30 mm f3.5 mentioned before looks really strong. I can not put my finger on it yet, but it produces 3D-like effect even for the GH1 video. A sign of very good OOF characteristics. Also, colors do not change when focusing - appears to be the strongest lens I have had the pleasure of testing in the sub 35 mm category. Focal plane may be slightly curved or the M42 adapter I use may be warped, similar happens on the Helios 58 mm. More testing will follow and the stiff focusing would need to be fixed.

    Some grabs from the GH1 video with the Pentacon 30 f3.5. Especially the stairway scene has always shifted colors when focusing using other lenses, not this time.

    pentacon30f35pic1.png
    1440 x 732 - 954K
    pentacon30f35pic2.png
    1440 x 810 - 4M
  • Tested the wide angle Minolta 21mm from wide open F/2.8 to F/8 on the GH2. Hacked setting used was the 'Apocalypse Now' Nebula 6GOP sharp variation. To my eyes it is quite a low contrast producing image that comes out of the 21mm, coupled with the AN444 it is super flat. So it may be harder to see the sharpness with the lack of contrast between lines. I did a little warm colour grading to match the heat of an Arabian camel :)

    Suggest me any tests you would like me to do, also have 28mm F/2 to test next.

  • I promised not to post more samples from the Pentacon 30 at this point, but could not do it. Another with the same setup as the previous one. ISO is atleast 800, which is high for the GF1. The close ups appear to be zeiss-like with good separation of in focus and out of focus, but let's see how the more detailed wider images turn out. I have my fingers crossed that this lens means business.

    pentacon30f35pic2.jpg
    1920 x 958 - 937K
  • Yes, it is certainly worth investigating and I will get to that shortly.

    I also seem to have one Kiron made Vivitar 28 mm f2 (serial starts with 22). While it can not be considered very high quality image at wide open, it is atleast bright. The bokeh is "interesting", to put it mildly and out of focus in the front shows ghosting. But even that kind of image may have some limited use. I seem to have no sample images at all, so it looks like I gave up on it. That does not mean it could not be used for something. And it sharpens when stopped down.

    The FD version can be stopped down by half aperture and becomes more useful already. MD version does not have half stop between 2 - 2.8.

  • They didn't have good lubricants at the time and it probably got stiff from coagulation.

    Cleaning and new lubrication might help a lot, I did that with my old Jupiter-9 and it's focus is very smooth now.

  • It would be wider on a full frame. But I see the point and back to the topic (somewhat). I just received a mint Pentacon 30 f3.5. This is very highly regarded by many photographers and is made in East Germany but using the original Meyer-Lydith design. You could read something here: http://www.mflenses.com/pentacon-30mm-f35-lens-review.html

    Lens construction is not ideal, every ring seems to have a bit of play and the focus is a bit stiff. This could become a problem with follow focus, but that remains to be seen. It was already getting dark, so no good test images could be made. But I got this one rather filmic contrast for one image using a little bit of curves and levels. It is noisy at high ISO.

    I should refrain from posting more comments or images before I know more about this lens, but certainly looks interesting. The angle of view is interesting and price is literally a tenner or two.

    pentacon30f35.jpg
    1440 x 686 - 631K
  • The Macro Rokkor is great, but we are definitely not talking "wide" here any more, so let's keep the topic.

  • That's good to hear, looking forward to acquire some of the mentioned lenses. Recently I discovered that the Minolta Macro Rokkor 50 mm f3.5 belongs to the cinematic class. I read that Minolta did not recommend using other MD close focus lenses for archival purposes, but the Macro Rokkors instead. This has to mean higher optical standards. Macro Rokkor 50 @ f3.5 turns the humble GH1 into a cinematic camera, atleast for suitable scenes.

    If it is not out of line, at fourseasonshd.com front page I updated the video and now has several scenes from several of the aforementioned lenses in action. There are both heavily graded and ungraded scenes. Tokina RMC 24 f2.8 is the "lamest", but only by hair. Yashica ML 35 f2.8 and Macro Rokkor 50 f3.5 turn the GH1 into a better camera than intended.

    To be able to use these lenses on a wider sensor would open opportunities for cinematic scenes, I'm sure.

  • @ki_hartikainen I second your observation. Bokeh of the Minolta 35mm 1:1.8 is stunning, while the 28mm 2.8 (or the super-sharp 24) is only so-so.

    But the Minolta 28mm 1:2.0 looks very good if stopped down one step.

  • i have a Vivitar 28mm f2.0 Its not the Kiron version and it is pretty sharp if you stop it down 1 notch, at f2.0 it blooms a bit. Got it dirt cheap, but its one of my favorite old manual lenses.

  • Thanks for the link. Those are super images. What a pity that the AVCHD can not duplicate such gamut.

  • @aki_hartikainen I have no experience with 24mm. The shot above was at f2.8 on D700. The drawing at f2 is better.

    http://www.flickr.com/groups/ai28mmf20/pool/with/5084987374/#photo_5084987374

  • Very nice. I suppose this was at full aperture considering the narrow DOF? Do you happen to know if the Nikkor 24 f2 shares similar characteristics? I will consider your offer, however I might be more inclined to get the 24 f2 for the GH cameras, if it looked as nice as that. Also, I am considering getting a camera with wider sensor. The 35 mm Distagon look is just so close to the "big picture" look.

  • I can highly recomend the Nikkor 28/2 AIS - lovely old school glass.

    Superb lens. It's AI not AIS, AIS is 2.8. These are legendary lenses.

    I have a mint Nikkor 28mm f2. I can let it go for $350 + shipping + paypal if anyone is interested. They go for $400+ on ebay,

    Nikkor-28mm-f2.jpg
    1920 x 1278 - 1M
  • Thanks for the test, all images looked rather good to me. It's interesting to note that perhaps due to the yellowing the Takumar picks up slightly different hues. Similar effect to what I try to achieve using color compensating filters.

    I took the Yashica ML 28 f2.8 out in better light and stopped down to f4 it becomes sharp. Images are zeiss-like but the bokeh of the 28 mm is not quite as nice as the 35 mm. I have noticed this same from the Minolta MD line of lenses. One sample from the ML 28 @ f4 grabbed from video and very quickly graded in Photoshop.

    ml28f4.png
    1440 x 810 - 2M
  • I have a Nikkor 24mm AIS that I've yet to find any flaws with. And also a handful of decent 28mm M42 lenses which work fairly well except in some bright high contrast situations.

  • I could not resist posting one more sample from a Tokina RMC 24 f2.8 from yesterday. My current thinking is that it is probably the closest to a high quality 24 mm lens in sub 100 eur category. If there is a better one in that price range, I would like to know about it. It has a little bit of barrel distortion, for which a suitable corrections file could be developed. Out of focus areas can sometimes be very slightly undefined but this is probably common to all wide angles. Sample variations could exist. A sharp copy seems to be rather sharp like this one. The camera becomes a quality limiting factor, the lens could give a bit more.

    rmc24f28.png
    1440 x 612 - 2M
  • Thanks for the info. I received a Yashica ML 28 f2.8 in mint condition today and was eager to test it, but from the first moment I could notice that it did not have that great "snap" focus of the Yashica ML 35 f2.8 or even the Yashica ML 35-70 f3.5-4.8 zoom lens.

    Everything else is great, contrast is very high and blacks go to black very quickly. Sharpness at full aperture f2.8 falls a bit short. However, it is a 25 year old inexpensive lens and there may be sample variations. Plus I may be demanding too much. Also, to make the bokeh match might mean giving up a little bit of the sharpness. Resistance to flare is a lot better than Minolta MD 28 f2.8. Minolta is sharper but bokeh leaves something to be desired and there is little resistance to flare.

    So the ML 28 f2.8 may not be the game changer for me and the search is still on for the perfect 24 and 28 mm lens. Tokina RMC 24 f2.8 is close, though, but falls just a tiny bit short. If this becomes a great challenge, then it might be easier to change the camera to a one with wider sensor. I already have several lenses starting from 35 mm that have made the cut for cinema production, ML 35 f2.8 being one.

    One option is to try a slower 28 mm lens for hopefully improved sharpness at full aperture and there are several of them available before going the big buck Leica, Zeiss or Nikon route for sharp 24 and 28 mm.

  • @aki_hartikainen Nice to know you are using Yashica lens as me. I thought I was the only one here! I think a lot of people here is somehow victim of a lock-in fallout for Canon with their lenses :)

    The Yashica 24mm f2.8 ML is probably one of the best of the entire Yashica set along with the 28mm F2.8 ML and your 50mm f.17. On a blind comparison it's very difficult seeing differences from the Zeiss distagon counterpart. And the price... I have the 24, 28 nad the 50mm f1.4 but the 1.7 is better than mine. 1:1 with the Zeiss 1.7 and maybe better than the Canon 50mm 1.4 but at this level it's really a question of personal taste. Actually it's difficult to exploit these lens characteristics on the GH2 poor photo performance but if you do a quick Google search is plenty of sources of these lens on FF camera.

    Here a link in Italian language with a quick review of all the Yashica lenses. Waht to buy and what to avoid. Should be easy reading it with Google translate.

    http://www.nadir.it/ob-fot/YASHICA_LENS.htm

    Byeeeee

  • @LongJohnSilver Can you tell if the ML 24 has similar image to ML 28?

    I am eagerly awaiting delivery of a ML 28 f2.8, and if the ML 24 continues the same type of image line as the other lenses, might make me to commit to the much heftier purchase price of the ML 24. These are high contrast lenses that benefit from a little bit of contrast reducing filtering to my experience with ML 35 f2.8 and ML 50 f1.7. Images look similar to comparable Contax Zeiss, other than the lesser coating as was already mentioned.

    Speaking of Vivitars and Tokinas, I just tested older Tokina made Vivitar 24 f2.8 (serial starts with 37). It is unfortunately not quite as sharp as a newer Tokina 24 f2.8. This is a pity, because the construction of the Vivitar is really good and solid and feels to the hand like a "real" lens. There are Vivitar 24 and 28 mm lenses labeled as Close Focus, and they are supposedly sharp even wide open. When available their price is the same as comparable Nikkors, though.

  • I have an FD 24mm F/2.8 S.S.C. and it's a great lens for the GH2. I wish it was a bit faster though, ofcourse.

  • Wide rangefinder lenses are a very different construction as opposed to lenses for SLRs, they are not retrofocus.

    You can expect them to perform poorly on electronic sensors because of the angle that the light is coming in, even a Leica M-8 has difficulties:

    http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m8-forum/34426-wate-pink-corners.html

    So, if you want to go Leica, go Leica-R, not -M.

    Rangefinder lenses should be good starting from 50mm.