Back to shutters – I dig Hammond too, BTW, remember Brian Auger and Julie Driscoll?
I think your idea is quite promising for two reasons:
– When people see footage shot on RED with HDRx, they generally say it looks more cinematic. I think it's the motion trail generated by the longer exposure for the darker parts, blended mildly into the highlights.
– Twixtor works very well if you don't try to generate serious slo-mo, but only fill in frames. I used it recently for a well-known video artist, who had her project already shot in 50p to slow things down, but later was still unhappy since her camerawoman made a few turns a tad too fast (it was a very long uncut sequence). So, we tried generating intermediate frames to screen it with higher (albeit fake) temporal resolution. We both tested 1080i50 and 720p50, and she liked i50 the best. After all, i50 is blending the additional temporal information into the motion, and it looked quite smooth.
So, let's start experimenting with intermediate frames generated by Twixtor and mixed in by different overlay modes, maybe even blurred to some degree and see if we can make electronic shutter look any better.
I got one of those too . . . a 122. That combined with my B3 gives all the classic Hammond vibe one could ever want. If I ever pay off these student loans, I'm headed straight for a Rhodes. If I get a Rhodes, then I'll have my custom Strat, the B3, and the Rhodes all together, through a nice pedal board and switchable to the guitar amp or the Leslie. Guitar through Leslie is also pretty killer.
On the portability of the B3 . . . far too many modern keys players are wussies when it comes to lugging stuff around. They look at the B3 and reach for a Nord instead. My father and I can move my B3 pretty much anywhere just the two of us, excepting up/down full-on staircases, and I don't even have any handles for it or anything, just grip and go. Sure, you end up sweaty. Sure its heavy. Sure it requires a bit of pre-planning . . . but watching the guitarist's jaw drop when the Leslie blasts his silly little stack to kingdom come . . . well . . . for everything else, there's MasterCard.
Here's a link to the old rotating speakers I was taking about used by Hammond, these things still send a chill down my spine just like that smokey hazy that hung in the air of the clubs back then.. .hehe... Bit like Wabi- sabi actually :-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leslie_speaker
@rambo - Thanks for the links! I was in London a lot in the late 60's (yeah, I'm that old). Those were the B3 days! I used to frequent the Marquee club and probably half the bands playing there used B3's. In those days one of the reasons the B3 was popular because it was considered a good "portable" organ because sound was generated mechanically and thus the B3's never went out of tune (unlike Farfisas - which were terrible). One night in particular I remember was when Yes was the house band and they were opening for the "Elastic Band". Both had B3's and instead of one band opening for the other they actually alternated sets. It was quite a sight to watch them move around the 400lb "portable" B3's between sets. They drilled holes in the sides of the cabinets, put bars in, and lifted them like stretchers.
It's interesting how two of the coolest sounding keyboards ever - the B3 and the Rhodes - gained so much popularity largely because they stayed in tune when used on the road.
Aside from guys like Jimmy Smith (that was jazz, though) the player of that era that really blew me away was Keith Emerson - especially when he as with Nice - and they were incredible live too.
As for "Once Were Warriors" - one of my all time favorites.
Now... what were we talking about - oh yeah Wabi-sabi;-)
@Rambo You know something? I had a feeling you were going to chime in on 'Golden Miles'. Pity the band broke up so quickly.
Of note lead singer Charlie Tumahai appeared in the groundbreaking film 'Once Were Warriors' (1994) but sadly died the following year in 1995 at just 46.
In many ways 'Once Were Warriors' epitomises 'Wabi-sabi' especially in relation to some of the central characters.
'Once Were Warriors' - a family descended from Maori warriors is bedeviled by a violent father and the societal problems of being treated as outcasts. Jake Heke is a violent man who beats his wife frequently when drunk, and yet obviously loves both her and his family.
@pundit, ha haa, one of my fav songs. reminds me of a time in Melb venue called Airport Club Airport Rock (something like) in Essendon early '70s) the band had the Hammond cranked and the those rotating/spinning speakers screaming just before the end of the song for a big finale when the power went out. The Hammond and speakers wound down in an awesome dying fade/slowdown over 30secs that had the audience clapping. When it fell silent, the lead singer announced what had happened was unintentional but sure was the best finish to a song they ever did.
Must have been giant Capacitors discharging or something to keep the thing sustaining for so long with the power dying, i'll never forget it.
R
@cbrandin @B3Guy @driftwood Checkout the Hammond played by Mal Logan on this early 1970's Aussie song 'Golden Miles' by Healing Force.
Forget the video itself as it's mostly some silly unrelated mish-mash of unrelated clips.
Give it a few plays without looking at the video and just listen to this Hammond really wind up.
Here's another video clip of the actual band here but the audio quality is unfortunately really bad.
cbrandin >One way you could go about this is to create intermediate, motion interpolated frames and combine them with the captured frames using lower brightness for the interpolated frames. That would give the motion strobing a softer look – like with film cameras. It would be quite a project, though…
Interesting that you say that Chis, I've been toying with sample/resample with 50p footage when exporting as 25p in Sony Vegas and with resample enabled the footage is very noticeably smoother with the interpolated frames when there is "moderate" motion in the scene. Of course extreme motion results in visible ghosting or double imaging, but with careful selection it's quite pleasing and very useful, especially if the footage was shot 1/100 for use as slowmo, but then decided to use it at regular speed.
Read a good blog about Wabi Sabi. http://the-writing-life.blogspot.com/2012/07/please-pass-wabi-sabi.html
Check out unpredictably beautiful imperfect leaf. http://blogs.psychcentral.com/therapist-within/2012/01/is-perfection-an-imperfect-idea-therapy-nature/
Mmmmm :)
Nothing like a real B3. crosstalk, keyclick, tubes, leslie . . . there are a million little quirks that added together make those monsters so wonderful. A VERY good B3 keyboard like a Nord can sound decent if you pipe it through a Leslie, but the playing experience is not the same. The Start/Run switches, the air of the generator, the crackle that comes from slowly depressing a key . . . the smell of oil . . . that's why I'm glad I've got the real thing.
In terms of wabi-sabi . . . I saw the same relevance to filmmaking last year when I learnt about it in my Asian Philosophy course.
Yes, I was the one who made the footage they shot in Arizona for the moon program look authentic
I knew, I knew!
Nick - No, I did this work over 20 years ago. I worked with Yamaha, Alesis, and Ensoniq. The B4 way very cool, though!
Chris, I am sure that you had been in US moon program :-) Most probably also developed security system of White House :-)
Along these perceptual lines, I’ve been contemplating a method for mitigating the “strobing” look of digital video. The issue is that film camera shutters are out of focus and digital “shutters” (actually they aren’t really shutters) are in focus. One way you could go about this is to create intermediate, motion interpolated frames and combine them with the captured frames using lower brightness for the interpolated frames. That would give the motion strobing a softer look – like with film cameras. It would be quite a project, though…
Maybe Twixtor would be interested in doing something like this - they already have the hard part (i.e. the motion interpolation) figured out - the rest wouldn't be all that hard to do.
Nick - No, I did this work over 20 years ago. I worked with Yamaha, Alesis, and Ensoniq. The B4 was very cool, though! It's too bad they don't sell it any more - I think it was hands down the best B3 model I ever heard - I still use it to this day.
I have a computer I use that still has XP installed on it so I can use some of these old synths/samplers.
Yeah, I think perceptual modeling for video is in its infancy. They test one thing at a time and ask people how it looks. Then all these factors, which were determined in isolation, are combined in order to determine how to build the coding mechanism. The problem with this approach is that it is predicated on the notion that how we perceive things in isolation has much to do with how we perceive them when combined - which isn't a valid assumption. I think that's why even when we think everything is "perfect", somehow it doesn't "feel" right. How something "feels" is probably a product of factors we are not consciously aware of, or at least factors we can't isolate mentally and articulate.
@cbrandin Yep - done similar thought-processes with samples of pipe organs, when constructing virtual instruments, where you alter the tuning of held notes according to how many other notes are sounding, to simulate the effect of differences in wind pressure as different numbers of pipes are called into action.
I was also thinking though of how obsessed we seem with "old" lenses vs clean modern ones, and yet are also keen on reproducing dynamic range and colour perfectly.
Many years ago I used to design synths and samplers. I remember one project in particular where I was asked to model a Hammond B3 organ. I got the waveforms perfect – but it just didn’t “feel” like a B3. Eventually I bought a Hammond organ (a M3, I think – it was cheaper) and took it apart to analyze how it produced sound. One thing I noticed is that the keys weren’t simple switches – rather they were a series of bars with several wires (one for each harmonic) that would touch the bars when a key was pressed. As an experiment I programmed the synth so that instead of having all oscillators kick in simultaneously I had them start at slightly different times (randomly). Suddenly the sounds “felt” much more like a real B3. In fact, all the precise waveform modeling turned out to not be very important because with this key “crick” gimmick almost any waveform (within reason) resulted in a fairly authentic sound.
What I learned from this exercise is that what makes a sound “feel” right isn’t necessarily the most obvious or prominent component, and that often we really don’t understand exactly what makes things sound like they do.
Well... you can't sample a piano perfectly. You can reproduce single notes as played in isolation, but pianos are highly interactive. The sonic character of constituent notes varies with which combination of notes are played, how long a sustain pedal has been held, etc... These are not "imperfections", rather they are interdependent factors that are difficult, or impossible, to thoroughly model.
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