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Destiny of m43 mount cameras, how soon production will stop
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  • @tovrus

    Answer is very complex here :-)

    https://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/15422/semicinductors-industry-has-serious-issues-stop-will-follow/p1

    As for "compact will struggle". Never underestimate mass media that also help a little. Compact owners are very bad for ruling class. In case of smartphone it is just few key presses to check all your current shots and all old that are in cloud (it is enabled by default usually). With all GPS and such things in them. Compacts are shitty as most of their photos are offline.

    People at big sites know perfectly - promoting smartphones is good, telling that all compacts are inferior and shitty - will be also praised.

  • Sorry but can you explain why cost is increasing exponentially? Material costs? In any case, compacts will for sure struggle - phones made sure of that. M43 or aps-c are less direct competitors to phones though.

  • @tosvus

    Cost of making LSI is rising exponentially. And sales are mostly dropping (if you count m43+compacts).

  • The LSI seems fine on the upper end though? It can process 6K photo mode, 4K60P etc. I would think the LSI could handle cropping image from a bit larger sensor. (Like JVC) Are you saying it is hard to make really cheap models?

    Surely BM, Yi, DJI etc don't use same LSI as Panasonic or Olympus?

  • @tosvus

    I am talking about LSI, for now.

    As for sensors - usually modern APS-C sensors just lack necessary models (with m43 proper crop and such).

  • Vitaliy, if APS-C keeps getting developed, there is nothing stopping manufacturers from using those in say the GH5 series and other larger m43 cameras. One could use it to allow multi aspect, and for lenses with larger circles almost entire sensor could be used. Besides, I bough a CELLPHONE with 42MP in 2013! No reason why we can't squeeze more out of aps-c/m43.

  • Jjj_ri_usa Agreed, there ARE some specific scenarios where it makes more sense to go FF, even if you could have gotten close with that lens on a speedboosted for instance (EF version to get af). Sounds like you found a solution that works for you, and as you hinted at, m43 has other strengths, so it is just a different alternative overall, not an inferior one.

  • Azo, wow talking about getting your panties in a bunch.. first of all, didn't really say anything uncivil. The closest I got was that I'm damn tired of hearing predictions. Not just from you obviously, and I didn't call you a moron or anything. You started out by basically calling m43 a lemon, then proceeded to say "people don't like to invest in a system that fades away". Blatantly untrue statement!

    M43 has the biggest variety of mirrorless cameras and lenses. If you want to go small, which a lot of people do, there's equipment for that. If you want lowlight capability or shallow DoF there are lenses for that.(or gh5s for lowlight) If you want to go to Antarctica, there's equipment that can handle that. Olympus and Panasonic has the best Ibis in the business, and combined with fast native lenses or speedboosted lenses, there is very little that cannot be achieved on m43, unless you happen to be a pro that needs 50MP plus resolution on moving objects.There are also 3rd party companies doing various cameras and lenses. It is not a dying format at all.

    The only threat is the constant bashing and tricking people into thinking it is somewhat inferior. The fact of the matter is that most of us on this forum are gearheads to a much larger degree than talented photographers or videographers. The good ones in those fields can use m43 without issues, while most of us are looking for the next thing to take a slightly better picture, to compensate for lack of skill, artistry etc.

    By all means, there are people that can benefit from larger sensors in some situations, and maybe I will get a MF format camera as well, but I wouldn't let go of my day to day m43 arsenal that does most everything great.

    In any case, don't be one of those people that help spread misconceptions about this format (and I'm not just referring to you Azo). Thanks.

  • Thing with m43 is volume.

    With any modern camera you need big volume just to make LSI.

    Biggest issue Panasonic has now is they can't finance development from money they made selling compacts. And all Panasonic compacts had same LSI that their top cameras had, just with fewer RAM/ROM and sometimes clocked slower.

  • Cool, that was clearly an oversimplification on my side :) Obviously there are people who buy gear when they know they need it and will make proper use of it and you're one of them.

  • @all: I agree that u43 will continue to be viable. As has been said, u43 + FF are distinctly different with very different strengths. @brudney: Not everyone buys a FF for 'paper thin' DOF or to supposedly improve their photography. I wound up buying a used Nikon D750 and a used 70-200 f2.8 lens in order to get photos of my daughter's swim meets. The swim meets are often held in indoor, poorly lit pools, and I just could not get satisfactory pictures with my u43 gear (I have both f2.8 zooms, but, with the u43 sensor and the need for fast shutter speeds to freeze motion, the images were just too noisy). I rented several different combinations of APS-C and FF cameras before deciding on Nikon FF and saving enough $$ to get the used Nikon gear. I still mainly shoot u43 for outdoors because I have built up more lenses over the years, and it is a lot easier to carry. But, for swim meets: it has to be FF so I can use shutter speeds of 1/1000 and still get results that are not 'too noisy'. So...I am an example of someone who has both u43 and FF, but needed the FF for one specific reason: low light indoor sports. I doubt that I will get the Panasonic FF cams since I now have several Nikkor FF lenses so it makes more sense for me to eventually get the Z6 (after it has been around for a while and can be bought used). One nice thing about Nikon gear is that there are always opportunities to pick up fine gear at a good price. My used 70-200 f2.8 G VR II lens was pretty cheap, because a new Nikkor 70-200 f2.8 E lens came out, so gear freaks unloaded their 'old', 'obsolete' 70-200's for the newer version. :-)

  • Hopefully M4/3 will continue as it is a good compromise between bulk and portability whilst still offering good quality stills and great quality video performance. I've never understood the desire for shallow DOF in video as its not the way humans see the world so can look very odd for anything other than cutaway shots (Americans call this B Roll). Also although good low light performance is desirable, super low light shots in the main look horrible as there is no real depth to the image without the use of proper lighting.

  • I shoot with EVA now but still have a GH4 and love the compact size of the M43 kit, would be a shame if they faded it out

  • +1 AKED, makes a lot of sense for Panny to keep developing both formats, just like Canikons keep developing FF and APSC (which as you said are quite similar).

    And yeah, unless everyone starts needing paper thin dof and shooting in the dark, m43 is more than enough (well, maybe not for huge prints). People usually switch to FF because they think having a bigger sensor will make them better photographers or because of greed (euphemistically called GAS).

  • @tosvus Whoah take it easy.

    1. I never stated that EVERYONE needs a bigger sensor.
    2. I also never stated that everyone needs more lowlight performance.

    Basically, I stated the facts in regards to sensor size and image quality and my opinion on the future of M/43 format. Now having said that if you are happy with the M/43 sensor and image quality good for you but don’t get your panties in a bunch just becuase I stated the facts about sensor size and image quality. I like Panasonic cameras but the M/43 sensor is a little to small for my needs. Having said that I will probably buy the full frame Panasonic camera when it comes out.

    We don’t need to agree on everything but please be civil so that I can respond in a similar manner.

  • For many, the argument of less size and more important, less weight, is more important than better low light and better bokeh. No matter how good a camera is, if you do not take it with you because it is too heavy, it is a waste of money.

    APS-C has long survived besides FF in the Canon world. And APS-C is much closer to FF in size and weight than M43 it to FF. So from my perspective, M43 and FF together from one company makes much more sense than APS-C and FF. Because with M43 and FF you can serve really different needs of the customers. With APS-C snd FF not so much.

    Just my 2 cents.

  • Predicting the future is a fool's game. Lot's of it going on at personal-view! Clickbait topic titles also don't inspire confidence in this "personal view".

  • Azo, why do you think everyone need more low light performance, or a bigger sensor just for the heck of it? Obviously any format will die at some point but I'm damn tired of hearing know-it-alls predicting the end of m43, as they have been wrong every year since it came out.

  • Personally, I think it is just a matter of time before the M/43 format goes away. Although I am mainly into photography it still doesn't change the fact that you get better lowlight performance and image quality with FF or APSC sized sensors. There is only so much you can squeeze out of a lemon and they squeezed this particular lemon M/43 to the max IMO. People can say full frame is so much bigger etc and while this may be true it does have some benefits as well e.g not carrying around a bunch of lighting gear so they kinda offset each other to a certain degree.

    The real problem that I see is people don't like the idea that they have invested money into a system that will eventually just fade away. Well this is progress and just like the Nikon F mount the Canon EOS mount etc everything eventually changes with progress so you just have to eat it and except it.

    I have a bad habit of buying new cars every 3 or 4 years was there something wrong with my older cars? No technology improved and I wanted the latest and greatest so I bought it. This is the same thing with camera gear it's just happening a lot faster. I still have my Nikon F mount gear but only because I did not see anything that makes me want to jump ship yet. Having said that the L=Mount looks really good and if I am going to jump ship into mirrorless I will eventually need new lenses anyways so the Panasonic FF Mirrorless with L-Mount looks like something I might want to get into. Progress people nothing stays the same ;-)

  • As how you can be sure in the company that makes such booth?

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  • Logically, though… the full frame cameras and lenses are enormous. IMHO there will be a lot of M43 users who don't want to "upgrade" to that format. Yes, I know they all want the big margins, but in business a buck is a buck, so you take what you can get.

  • Vitaliy in the inside likes clickbate and yellow news

  • I was hoping clickbait titles would be limited to YouTubers ;)

  • @brudney

    It is clickbait title :-)

    Do not worry so much, despite my sources tell that we will have trouble with good new m43 cameras they assured that both cameras and lenses will be developed and released.