This is a topic for sharing advice, tips, tricks, stories, and feedback on how to make a living making video.
Elements of which include:
And do not include:
The topic comes from my own selfish desire to tap the P-V collective knowledge as I pursue this goal. But I think a lot of us could benefit. We'll see.
Who the hell are you jweeke and why do you keep mentioning my name?
New video by our production company in Seoul--Marriott hotel is the officially unofficial client. (You'll probably see in the video why it's gotta be unofficial.)
Enjoy it! We sure did...
By the way, @mintcheerios helped a lot!
@zaz Yep pretty slick self-promoter, this guy. But that's probably a point for another thread.
And yeah, it's fluff conceived to please a corporate board of privileged white people. Maybe that's why it works! Because people really want to watch stuff that's about them, not about some rainforest they'll never see.
lol. Max Joseph , aka Mr Lonely, aka that other poof on MTV's Catfish, aka the one that's always shoving his powershot s100 in everyones face. He so indie. He's no dumby he cashed a fat check with Mr. Lonely written all over that motherfucker.
its pretty easy to figure out some semblance of a compelling story regarding whatever idealogically masturbatory scheme that non-profit-next-door's got going on - and those comfy liberal bo-daggers at vimeo sure love staff picking the fuck out of that shit! so doing some creative (read, low-cost) non profit work CAN payoff in terms of bunches of altruistic wiggers digging your whimsical twitter feed, which is good because white faggotry carrys all the cash in todays futurist-corporate society, and ERBODY WANNA B SHOOTIN DA CORPRATE GIG$ MON!!!!!
@Zaz, that's a really good answer. I guess things are always more complicated than a simple "cause / effect" relationship, so it's really interesting what you said about it also changing what you did. Sounds like a win all round!
@mark_the_harp my business actually increased after the rate change, but I should also ad that at that point I started taking my work more seriously and pushed the envelope a little more in terms of what I could create artistically. I think the work is what kept my business going, and the rate change kind of kicked me in the ass to get there.
edit: ok, the above is true, but i think i should ad that I am not a regular shooter. so, while my rate of business did increase, its kind of hard to really quantify, as before i was shooting maybe 3 projects a year, and now i am shooting maybe 6.. for me it has been a big change, but for someone who works more consistently, idkkkkkkk...
@andyharris I hadn't seen this before. Hilarious!
@QuickHitRecord You are so right about the people that are put in front of cameras. A teleprompter can help the forgetful!
I'll also add that on every job you'll get a bit of footage that you really like, but many times the client won't - their choice wins!
I would say that we often get asked to keep including the product or company name, which can be long and adds too many seconds and wrecks the flow of the story.
My favourite comments are:
Go here - https://reelgrok.com/Hot-Budget-Commercial-Bidding-Software
& download the excel bid file. Every line item is accounted for and you can add your mark up or whatever you need to do. Just going through the bid can remind you of costs that you don't normally take into account. After you've filled out the entire bid, pdf it and send to the client as your estimate.
@QuickHitRecord: This is superb!
I think that this video sums up the corporate creative experience pretty well:
I work for a corporation on a small internal video team, so for the past five years, corporate video has comprised of about 80% of what I do. I might think and act differently if I were doing freelance work, but from my experience, my biggest takeaways are these:
Zaz - that's an inspired idea. Thanks for sharing. Makes perfect sense that we should be factoring in the cost of equipment and that's a great way of putting a value on it. And I like that it gave you more confidence to put the rate up to a reasonable one.
Out of interest, what impact if any did it have on the business you got after you put your rate up?
And in the interest of everyone's educational benefit, my rate before was $800, my kit came out to $1000, and I changed my rate to $1200, which is still on the low side of standard in my area (Seattle, WA). Also, I have a BFA in photography, and have been shooting video for about 3 years now.
Useful article by Ryan Walters: http://www.ryanewalters.com/Blog/blog.php?id=3495230583508577810
Personally, my expenses are so low that calculating my day rate this way fucks me in the ass.
I had been happily charging a competitive rate for one-man-style shooting, but then one day, out of curiosity, I put together an order at lens rentals for a 1 day period that included every single piece of gear I will typically use on a gig. I found that it actually exceeded my day-rate by about %25. Until that point, I had trouble asking for more, but after learning that any old schmoe could rent my entire kit, sans the know-how required to operate it, or any experience doing so for MORE than I was charging, I raised my rate without hesitation.
When discussing pricing with a client, I think this figure provides an extremely logical and simple line of thinking, re. your reasoning in calculating your rate. I now feel extremely uncomfortable going below this dollar amount - and rightly so!
This also means that if a client really wants to paire things down, you can simply remove pieces from your kit. No budget for a cinematic look? Just bring one standard zoom lens, no follow focus, no primes, no dolly, maybe not even a tripod! No budget for sound? Leave your recorder at home. Leave the lavs, wireless transmitters, booms, hell, leave the on-camera mic if u have to. You get paid less, but your production can be vastly simplified (easier), if need be.
@fatpig Here's our current system:
As far as figuring out your costs, that takes research and experience. I know that for us it can vary up to 20% off our estimations, so you've got to factor that in, too.
Does anyone with more experience have advice on the process?
you do not point out to the client what the single points are, but you do have some base of calculating, dont you?
Also: At the moment, for example, I have a client that wants an advert, but we don't yet know what we are going to shoot. Making the Concept is part of the process, of course.
But I can not know how many actors, which actors, which location, as of yet.
So I made an offer stating my daily rate and- that the amount of shooting/cutting days is yet to be determined.
@all: How would you have done it? What are some daily rates for reference?
@fatpig Good point.
Right now I prefer to invoice nothing but the video and whatever added options the client selects. (+graphic animation, spokesperson, aerial). It's a product, not a service, right? Hours and expenses are unnecessary information.
But how you price that product is the hard part...
I am a film student from Germany, and I think it is not only here that cheap, low-quality productions are a big problem.
Maybe some more of you can share how you get to your price and how you list it in your invoice (such as- fee for renting out your own camera, fee for camerawork per day, fee for cutting per day,...)
I think many can benefit from your experience so that WE don't damage the prices on the market.
I've been a video editor for 10 years. Its gone "well" financially but I'm on the verge of going crazy w this career. Here is my advice. Don't spend all the money you make, save up. Read books and eventually you'll be smarter than 90% of the retards that work in production. Most of these people are in it just for the money so that they can feed their children. The result is 95% of the bullshit, propaganda, and commercials to keep people consuming garbage. Im still working as an editor, but i can't stand the directors, producers, etc i work with, they are fucking ignorant. Everyone wants to produce reality shows, its entertaining when you're young and making money feels good, but then you get older, wake up, and say "i hate the media.... oh wait, I'm somewhat part of the problem... certainly not the solution."
People in production are whores (including actors obviously), pay them, and they'll make or say what ever you tell them to.
So make some dough, buy a house, rent it out and go live in a 3rd world country for nothing.
Most people in production make garbage. People should read good books, not watch videos.
Nice - advertising has polarised in the UK - zero or silly budget - I'm sure it's the same globally - the old days of unlimited flowers and fruit have gone (good!) but there's still work out there.
@spacewig @kavadni @peternap-- Thank you!
@truestory-- True story indeed. Discounting is a slippery slope, and that's one of the things we're struggling with. Our portfolio's too limited to be charging what the established houses get (~2k/minute), so we're taking discount jobs like this one to build it up in the meantime. Hopefully not for long...
The goal is to to figure out how to make video that looks and sounds like this:
For a tenth what than these guys spent -- and NOT lowering our rates, of course ^_^
Anybody have paid work to share? I'm interested in commercials, government, and events as well...
Great job for first video.. Budget was ridiculously cheap, i would charge 10-15K for similar gig.. Comments: Too long for corporate, most need to be around 3 minutes, 4 minutes max for this one.. Voice over too boring no sense of excitement in his voice, sounds like he was doing a wildlife safari read.. The chain block animation idea was great however needs to be a lot faster in and out, maybe 1/2 the time you have now.. All up though the shots were great, well framed and well edited... You will learn more as you go but remember above all else, start to charge for what you are worth, i know it sounds hard but you can get easily trapped in a cycle of budget videos if you undersell yourself too often.. Remember all the gear you have purchased and how many hours you have studied your craft, they all have value...
Look forward to see your next production.. Cheers
I think you'll do well!
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