Personal View site logo
Cluster X: Series 1 - moon - ЅріzZ - nebula - drewnet - Slipstream
  • 1008 Replies sorted by
  • @driftwood. My vote is for Intra 24p, 3GOP for HBR and 1080i60 and 6GOP for 720p60. I use NTSC.

  • 3 was very special but 5 seems very good, talking 24p.

  • @Driftwood as long as we don't loose the quality of HBR which is very good at the moment. I vote for GOP1 HBR. I don't mind having 3GOP 720p or 6GOP 720p. I am still on Trial 5 without any problems so far. I also like @Zaven13 's approach. and for 1080p24 I am speechless. also I agree with @towi about the matrix.

  • @Mirrorkisser by now I haven't shot Spizz in 24p mode much. I can't draw conclusions from the few tests I did. With regard to technical benchmarks both produce very similar results… with Spizz constantly showing a lower QP on the same scenes (but also showing a slightly higher QP range in I Frames). In HBR (25p) mode Spizz is sharper than Valkyrie … maybe this is also true for 24p. But, again, I can't comment yet.

    @driftwood Since I shoot your Intra patches without exception in 24p mode I can't comment on the balance of HBR/FSH/SH modes. The 3GOP 720p50 in Spizz is really good - so I think going back to 6GOP is not really necessary.

    As to the matrix...: we have a huge selection of Dritwood Intra patches for different looks to choose from. For the concept of Moon I think it would be reasonable to produce the finest details possible without applying in-camera sharpening. Therefore I'd vote for the slightly sharper matrix (handles better in post for me ... YMMV).

  • I like the visual characteristics of Moon trial 3 best, i only shoot in 24p though.

    @towi: do you prefer spizz or valkyrie for 24p? Thank you for your testing!

  • Shot with Moon 3 last week, about to load up 5 and head out within the hour to shoot similar stuff. Will report back this evening.

  • *** moon Opinions Needed ****

    What's the vote then people on Cluster X moon. Do we all agree with Trial 5,4 or 3 for 1080p24 and @Zaven13 's safe bet surehot work on 720p/HBR/FSH modes or should we bring 720p 3 GOP back down to 40Mbps max so that FSH1080i/HBR modes work without problems ? Or lose 3 GOP 720p60 changing it to 6 GOP, keep 720p50 3 GOP as it is or upto 6 GOP too. Put it to the vote.

  • I do use a modified version of Spizz Trial 4 (PAL modes adjusted)… however, FWIW, spanning works fine in HBR (25p), FSH (50i) and SH (720p50) modes on SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC as well as on SanDisk 95MB/s 32GB SDHC cards.

    24H (24p = unaltered Spizz Trial 4) spans on SanDisk 95MB/s 64GB SDXC (failed on SanDisk 95MB/s 32GB SDHC; also 24L failed on this card).

    Scenes tested for spanning utilized an average bitrate of around 67M in HBR & FSH modes, 113M in 24H mode and 52M in SH mode. Attached a screenshot with data of the scene I've shot to test spanning in HBR/25p and FHS/50i modes (scrub in the snow); the scene didn't require the codec to produce very large I-Frames and to utilize the highest bitrate, however 67M is not far from it. (just for clarification: the screenshot shows the data of a short 15'' clip I've shot prior to the spanning test as I didn't want to load 4GB in Streamparser's JM-SP decoder).

    Spizz is really a great all around setting! In HBR/25p mode motion is not quite as smooth as in the Valkyrie settings (especially Valkyrie 444). Since Spizz is noticeably sharper than Valkyrie in HBR/25p mode this may also contribute to the impression of a slightly smoother motion in Valkyrie. But motion looks really good also with Spizz.

    Thousands of thanks to @driftwood and @bkmcwd - great work!!!

    spizz trial4 adjusted.jpg
    1402 x 809 - 354K
  • @zaven13 Good tips! I'm not really worried about stability in the GH2's. I don't use them for interviews or long recordings. I have other cameras better suited for that.

    The detail and grade-ability is what I'm after in Moon and it has it in spades. I need to shoot moon5 in 720 some more. I was getting a blue tint yesterday that I wasn't getting in 4, but that could just have been a fluke,

  • @peternap. I agree with you. There are different factors involved in spanning such as bitrate, zooming, image detail etc... I like Moon setting. Here is what I did to further stabilize Moon for my needs. I combined sharp matrix of Moon Trial 4 with quantization of Moon trial 3 (16). Then I reduced the high end bitrate for 1080i and 720p from 93MB to 88MB and raised the lower end from 48MB to 58MB. Of course I adjusted the top and bottom bitrate setting values to match the changes. This change further stabilized FSH/SH giving me upto 80+ MB and I get higher bitrates and better quality at FH/H (FH 50-65MB, H 40-50MB). When I need spanning, I just use FH and H with good quality. I also tested 24p mode last night and it spanned with no problems. Cheers.

  • @Mirrorkisser QP and IQ are nearly comparable with 'moon' having the highest average frame size count of course.

  • @rapsoe, i already used OSX's disk tool to completely overwrite the disk, i tried sdformatter but that had zero influence on the speed after already using OSX's disk till which can mostly do the same what sdformatter mainly does.

  • @lmackreath: try Spizz, its a wonderful setting and probably more reliable for spanning which you might need during a wedding. its also very good for motion. If you dont need spanning, moon is probably as good as a gh2 can get.

    @driftwood how do qp and iq compare between spizz and moon? and cheers again for your wonderful settings m8, i am all in aw and enjoying what my camera can do.

  • @driftwood thanks, with that in mind with the kind of shooting I do I guess it would be best to start with moon and see how it fairs.. Just wish I would get some nice clear days to shoot in this miserable British weather!

  • Movement is movement whatever light the sensor sees - panning or fast movement on a motionless camera. Think of it as a picture - the amount the codec has to predict from the previous frame.

  • When people say " drewnet with low qp is better for static shots than moon".. How static are we talking?.. I always use tripods but film talking heads.. Weddings etc.. There is a lot of movement within the frame but not a lot of actual panning and movement of the camera. With this in mind would moon or drewnet be more suitable?

  • Can someone also test the cluster X settings with the Higher ISO patch in ptools set to UNCHECKED. Thanks.

  • My first grade test with Moon, this was shot bright and then brought down to this level, and I did my best to pull details where I felt necessary. I am no grading pro though, so criticism is welcome. It did feel like Moon graded very easily and gave me more room to play than most if not all patch settings I have used before

  • @Zaven13 I know that but you'd think the higher bitrate would be less likely to span than the lower one. At 1600 tonight, it continued to span until the battery died...almost two hours.

    At ISO 400 last night, it didn't span at all.

  • @peternap. ISO 1600 uses higher bitrate because of the additional light. If you check the bitrates of the two footages you will see the difference.

  • @zaven13 Apparently moon 5 spans in SH too...sometimes.

    I'm doing the same test, 24p, same Nikkor 28 2.8 lens, same scene, lighting, camera, card...everything the same as last night when it wouldn't span...and tonight it's been going for 55 minutes and still hasn't stopped.

    The only difference between last night and tonight is last night I was using ISO 400 and tonight 1600...Go figure.

  • @peternap and @all, Moon FH and H modes span with no problems. I have already tested them.

  • @Driftwood I have to redo the span test from last night Nick. I didn't check the datarate in 24P

    Today I did a test in 720 60 and it still didn't span. Lasted 12 minutes and cut off at 4 gigs. It's not a big deal to me. My clips rarely exceed two minutes. Just testing.

    moon-chart.jpg
    1600 x 900 - 852K
  • I don't know how to read the charts but from what I'm looking at is the 24p Promotion chart indicating that it is better than Flowmotion?

  • @driftwood thanks for your answer (and sorry for my english, I'm French) Like I said, I try to use your new Moon hack on Sandisk SD extrem 45MB/s and 95MB/s. My GH2 is PAL, I ran stress test with a lot of detail and motion and, on both card, I have no problem with 24P, beautiful picture and very high bitrate (140000kbits/s) but I have lots of write speed errors in 25HBR or FSH 1080i (PAL) settings. In this case my GH2 freeze and I have to remove the battery to get back him to life. it's the first time that I have a problem with one of your hack.

This topic is closed.
← All Discussions
Start New Topic

Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Sign In with Google Sign In with OpenID

Sign In Register as New User

Tags in Topic

Top Posters