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RAW makes obsolete all your skill
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  • So, now that you have a bmcc that can shoot raw are you a master cinematographer?

    Shooting raw is more like shooting film - now that we have more control did the whole world suddenly become child's play? Did you ever dodge and burn when printing a negative on an enlarger?

    You still have to put time in to shoot it right even with Raw.

    There is a huge gap between an amateur with good tools and a master.

    Maybe there are no known masters in your area, I don't know - but there are plenty of masters on the east coast, west coast and Chicago.

    Normally I don't let such vapid rants annoy me - but this set me off.

    If you feel the need to be a purist - go shoot only jpeg and do video with no color correction - or try shooting slide film - that's a challenge in itself. Maybe you will discover more about the most important medium of the 20th century (my blowhard opinion).

    Please - get out a little more and explore the world for what it is. The fact that no one wants to pay shit for your work does not mean you can't still make art - or make money for that matter if you are clever.

  • @bannedindv what on earth did you come up with my thinking i'm a master cinematographer?

    you are WAY out in left field with the rest of your post.

    if anything, the point that I'M making is RAW and Color Grading HELP to making a finished product look great.

    I have shot jpeg and made edit with no grade. Beck when I did it looked great, but now that technology has improved...why would I?

  • other than the first photo, they look fine to me...

    Ahhhh, you can't fool me! Now who's trolling who?

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  • I just had another thought, could it be possible.....JUST POSSIBLE, that the fact that pretty much every cellphone in the world now has a camera attached, and it's possibly making a large % of people in general better photographers, from gradual experience, and learning to know what works and what doesn't as far as angles, distance, and lighting, and so on?

    Or it could possibly strike peoples interest to own a better camera and learn how to take a nicer picture than their cellphone. I'm a firm believer that life is about learning, and that it is NOT impossible for an individual to "learn" something new, especially with the help of online tutorials and youtube videos lol just a though...

    can we reach and agreement here? lol

  • You can have quite decent latitude in exposure with traditional negative film too. B&W especially. Caj Bremer, a famous finnish photojournalist active between the 50's and 80's, used to ballpark estimate his exposures a lot. Set and forget. His images are astonishing.

    You lose dynamic range if you don't nail the exposure and that's the same with digital exposure as well. Reversal film is another beast. Sort of like jpg you have to get the exposure right or you will blow highlights very easily.

    Getting the exposure right is just one part of photographic technique. Raw and autoexposure won't help you with the rest: framing and focus. End of the day, the thing that counts the most is timing and content. How is raw-format making this obsolete?

  • @GravitateMediaGroup You are so missing the point. Your photo composition and framing is atrocious. You may want to get a quad core chip in your camera to fix that. RAW by itself will not cut it.

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    :-)

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  • For on the fly capture, I can see where GMG is coming from. You just capture moments as they are happening. However, I still believe with a certain vision it changes those perspectives for the clients. Most importantly, those moments shine for a photog when they are allowed to compose and light a certain shot which then, I feel separate a DSLR owner and the Pros. Because essentially, you are the DP of your shots. You can especially tell the difference by looking at their Engagement shoots where they have a full day one-on-one with the couple. I'm not even an amateur photographer, so take that with a grain of salt.

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev I really really like your graph find there. I'm going to use it in a presentation; its exactly how I feel about the area's I'm working in.

    To add to this debate, here's a couple of images from our youngest child's homework:

    Alt text

    and the basis:

    Alt text

    Of course it was done on a 5D. The girls came up with the idea and it was only 1C outside so it had to be done in the garage. Its not the 5D that makes these pictures, its the lights, which came from P-V deals (the DN900 and AS312). The lights help to lose the scruffy background and the low DOF reduces the background yet further.

    20 years ago I used to compete in amateur photographic competitions. These days I'm getting about 1 week every month employment on video and photographic work. From my semi-pro viewpoint, I believe the professional learns how to give the customer what they want in the time and cost they want.

    I'm finding that I visualise great shots and interesting angles; but keep my mouth shut if they'll blow the time or cost budget.

    To be slightly provocative I would say that learning to shout loud-and-politely makes obsolete most skill that you'd like to believe you need. (Does anyone know of a good shouting tutorial ???)

  • @Vitaliy_Kiselev; great graph, now I understand the dip I'm in. :-)

  • @manstok

    Exactly right, manstok! The challenge for us is to somehow confidently stay atop the fast-moving "technology surfboard" while new and improved waves incessantly crash in around us! In all seriousness, our aggregate level of technological achievement in the visual arts sector is simply astonishing these days, as well as exciting and addicting!

    Knowledge is power and takes time and perseverance to achieve -- at least for a feeble-minded person such as myself. It's the increasing pace of product obsolescence that has me dazed. That's why I usually try to avoid being an early adopter because it's also known that fools rush in where angels fear to tread!

  • This has been my favorite topic this year hands down!

    I believe RAW photography has paved the way for some many enthusiasts to proclaim themselves 'Photographers'. I only have to look at my own small town and there are countless Photogs and they all take so so pictures. Only one or two have the proper skill.

    Visually pleasing, enticing, dramatic, awe-inspiring and emotional photography is a skill, no question about it. Being able to conceive an image in the mind and translate it onto a camera and then be able to get a reaction from your intended audience is what sets you apart.

    We have worked with some amazing photographers and some that if we could help it we would never work with again. The difference? Usually personality, but also ability to interact with their subjects, bring out the best in them, manipulate them into a position or emotion that when they see the photo they go "wow... i look alright". I'm speaking about Wedding Photography here obviously but similar principles apply to other photographers that deal with people.

    Wildlife photographers, or landscape? no idea......

  • Wildlife photographers, or landscape? no idea......

    I am pretty sure that raw is all you need for wildlife.
    Just get big rock, throw it into the big lion and you will have some time to make few really dramatic shots. Your wife later could even sell them to cover part of expenses for your funerals.

  • absolete = obsolete or absolute? i guess both fit ;)

  • absolete = obsolete or absolute? i guess both fit ;)

    absolete means - absolutely obsolete

  • Dunning-Kruger Effect chart is just great! I wish, I wish you would have posted this earlier, I get in touch with so many people at work who think they could do my or the other guys (creative) jobs just as well, when they really are the most untalented and unskilled person's of all ----- they just don't notice it and it makes me so mad at times.

  • I would say that a similar argument to this thread would be....now that you can play and record perfect synthesized music on your computer that there is no longer a need for a musician to create a great song?

    Which is equally full of shit!

  • @robmneilson I would say the number of "rappers" is at an all time high thanks to a computer and a USB mic.

    @radikalfilm maybe I would if I was a photographer? There is no such thing as proper composition & framing BTW. What doesn't look good to YOU, may look amazing to somebody else.

  • So is the number of village idiots thanks to a keyboard and a few fingers.

  • @spacewig you just summed up the whole conversation

    there have always been village idiots, but now there are more with the help of technology?

    there have always been photographers (since the invention of the camera) but now there are more with the help of technology?

  • @gravitatemediagroup so all those rappers are putting out great albums? Or do they need to be an artist to produce good art?

  • @robmneilson have you ever heard of "lil b" lol look him up and you'll get my point. NOTHING about his music is great. but SOME people think he is the best rapper to ever live.

    wonder what 2pac would think of this? lol

    warning: explicit language

  • @GMG are you saying then that all photographers are like village idiots? Because if you aren't then your logic above does not work.