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Film Grain Overlays . . . a trick for getting better 4K with anamorphic from your 1080p camera?
  • 45 Replies sorted by
  • Mark_the_HarpMark_the_Harp

    @B3Guy Any chance of just attaching the photos here? Don't want to join yet another forum just to see them!

    Cheers

    @robmneilson I loved your Hobo video - have commented on Vimeo.

  • B3GuyB3Guy

    The film grain effect composited in here is a bit strong in terms of contrast, but that's to make visible just what it is doing. Under most circumstances, I personally would at least halve the contrast of the grain overlay. It could be quite subtle and still increase perceived resolution.

  • B3GuyB3Guy

    Ok, here are two 100% grabs from FCP. (Thanks to @robmneilson for the footage).

    The file was converted to ProRes422HQ via ClipWrap, then dropped into a 4000x1674 (2.39:1) sequence for the same codec settings as the clip. (my old copy of FCP only goes up to 4000, so no 4096, sorry.) I stretched the footage out from 2X, then scaled it up from 1080 to 1674 vertical (313X scale approx.) zoomed in to 100%, it is very obvious that the footage has been scaled both ways.

    Then the magic started. I dropped a 4679 × 3119 film grain PNG file in the track above the footage, scaled to 100% (pixel-to-pixel with my 4000x1674 frame). See for yourself, but I think this is pretty brilliant. The grain brings the footage right up into 4K. To my eyes, it appears as if it was shot at 4K, just with a softer lens or with a softening filter in the matte box.

  • B3GuyB3Guy

    @robmnielson Thanks for the .mts, I'll certainly be testing some stuff out with it until I get my anamorphic. I'll keep you in the loop.

  • B3GuyB3Guy

    @Macalincag, there is a very good thread for this on our forum, one user posted up some sort of simplified code version for this. I've never used AE, but this sounded simpler than the "wiggle" method.

    " CODE: SELECT ALL x = random(0, -(thisLayer.width-thisComp.width-anchorPoint[0])); y = random(0, -(thisLayer.height-thisComp.height-anchorPoint[1])); [x,y]

    remember to set the quality switch for the grain layer to 'Draft', so you don't get any smearing from positioning on half pixels.

    "

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    It was the sony CLM-V55 (I think thats the model #). Then I went to the DP1x which had the 2x unsqueeze, and now over to the TV logic. I'm surprised the DP6 doesn't do it, since it was no problem with the DP1x!

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    btw if anyone wants to mess with a 2x anamorphic mts file to see if the overlay, sharpening etc works. I've uploaded a short clip here: http://www.sendspace.com/file/pgmd6w

    From an unhacked GH2 with 75mm lomo roundfront.

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @robmneilson, one last question - what monitor was it? A friend of mine bought the DP6 and we assumed we would be able to use the custom settings for unsqueezing it, but it glitches out before you get close to 3.56:1. We had to settle for something closer to 2.39:1 which was nice but still stretched quite a bit vertically.

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    Jumped ship to the FS-100, which I adore. If only it was hackable....

  • SangyeSangye

    Just curious, what're you shooting on now?

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    Thanks! Makes me wish I kept around my GH2 for a b-camera. I miss it on so many shoots!

  • SangyeSangye

    @robmneilson That was hilarious! You nailed the vintage era look, feel, and tone. This is one of the most impressive GH2 productions I've seen.

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    For the hobo menace I had a small Sony monitor, which was sadly not unsqueezed. However I found with tests that the 4:3 overlay is basically a good rough safe zone for the framing after blowing up the image to fit in the 2:40 ratio.

    For TV casualty I finally had a proper monitor that would do the unsqueeze.

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @robmneilson, thought of one other question - were you able to monitor an undistorted image, or did you just work off the LCD? Did you mark it up for the eventual crop on the sides?

  • MacalincagMacalincag

    Free alternative

    Download this 4.5k Black & White 35mm Film Scan: http://byscuits.com/grain-tm400.png

    • Load it up in AE using it's native resolution for your composition settings.
    • Set your workarea/time -navigator for as long as you want the clip to be.
    • Set a "position" keyframe at the beginning and end of it.
    • Open up Window > Wiggler. Make sure "Position" is highlighted in your Comp. pane or else Magnitude won't be accessible.
    • Set frequency: 24 (or w/e FPS you want), Noise type: Smooth, Dimension: All the same, Magnitude: 20-40 (higher for more randomness) -- Then Apply
    • RAM Preview it if you wish...
    • Open the Renderer > Output Module Settings.
    • Format: DPX sequence.
    • Check "Resize", Lock Aspect Ratio -- Resize to 2048 -- Resize Quality: High (height will automatically change accordingly) [Can't resize to HD right away or black edges will be visible due to Wiggling]
    • Check "Crop" -- Top:143 -- Left:64 -- Bottom:142 -- Right:64. Final Size should read 1920 x 1080.
    • Render it out.

    You should now have a resized 4kish film grain you can overlay for HD material. Grain will be finer and subtler than actually cropping an HD portion out of it.

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    Thanks for your kind words

    And yeah, the lomo round/square fronts make it much easier to focus.

    In the past I was on a shoot where he attempted some long focus pulls and had a person each focusing the lens, but we never got quite good results.

    Next time I'm out shooting a project with these I'll see if I can use red giant instant HD with good results!

  • OedipaxOedipax

    @robmneilson, Hobo Menace is great! Really well done on every front, not just the visuals.

    One question, how did you go about doing the focus pulls? Was it one person turning both lenses or did you have two people?

    Edit: Nevermind, I see on Vimeo you were using the squarefront Lomos that can dual-focus. When you said 2X I just assumed Kowa, nevermind ;)

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    I shot this on the GH2 with 2x anamorphic lenses and overlaid cinegrain:

    It definitely helps hide the lost resolution in blowing up and cropping. And since I used a dirty film scan it helped even more.

    I later shot this one, and used a standard 35mm 160 ASA grain

  • OedipaxOedipax

    Well-done post-grain definitely can add the feeling of more resolution/detail, in my experience. It can even add a little sense of greater latitude in your clipped shadows and highlights. You don't want to push it too far or it starts to feel really cheesy, but I've been pleased with this for some projects, depending on the desired look.

    Can't speak to how it would work for a 4K upscale, but it seems worth a shot. I know it's helped match 720p60 stuff (already pretty damn good on the GH2, admittedly) with 1080p24.

  • SangyeSangye

    "Sharpening horizontally" doesn't make any sense. If it's possible (and I'd be surprised if anyone has bothered to make a plugin that does), it'd just look really bad, and might cause weird aliasing effects.

    The idea of using 4K film grain is interesting, though. Obviously it isn't adding any detail, but it may "trick" viewers into thinking that they're seeing more detail. Please post your findings if you try this. I'd also check into plugins for upres'ing footage. I believe Boris FX and Red Giant both make plugins that do this. I know that InstantHD by Red Giant does a pretty good job of scaling SD and 720p footage to 1080p, so I assume there's a similar solution for scaling 1080p nicely up to 4K.

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