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Digital Bolex raw camera, no longer made
  • 1130 Replies sorted by
  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    CCDs have been used in video cameras for decades. This equating them somehow to be more "filmlike" now that most cameras use CMOS is getting rather tedious. The lens and the grade has more to do with the net effect of any of these cameras.

    Go look up sample video of the BMPCC shooting with c-mount lenses and a punchy, saturated grade that ignores the garbage LUTs that come with it and voila, retro 16mm look.

  • bwhitzbwhitz

    The DBolex does somewhat resemble 16mm. Older stocks of 16mm from the 70's and 80's, not the ones where they were beginning to emulate 35 more. That is what this cam is predisposed to delivering.

    Agreed. The DB does seem to give an authentic 80's film-look, and it does it well. It just doesn't have that modern-film look that the Alexa, BMCC, and Red can deliver. I wouldn't use it unless it was a dedicated retro-project... but even then, you could just use any camera, reduce the contrast/grade, and add grain. So I dunno if this is really going to find it's place beyond nostalgia enthusiasts.

  • rockroadpixrockroadpix

    @luekio - "D16 It is however perfect for 16mm enthusiasts, indie filmmakers and anyone who is fed up with the videoish look, moire, aliasing and rolling shutter of the other options in this price range. I've been shooting with it for a couple of weeks myself and can confirm it has NONE of those problems and the image is gorgeous!

    Not for everyone though, for example if you want to shoot weddings/events/your cats a gh4 would be a much better choice."

    Your snark is really getting tiresome here. There are plenty of cams out there (GH2 being one) that do not look video-ish at all with the right settings and lenses. The DBolex does somewhat resemble 16mm. Older stocks of 16mm from the 70's and 80's, not the ones where they were beginning to emulate 35 more. That is what this cam is predisposed to delivering. I know this, I loaded a crapload of S16 back in the day and worked with it a lot.

    You don't seem to like what is being said here about your camera. (Never become emotionally tied to hardware, btw) Feel free to go back to Joe and Elle and look down your noses at the people posting here from afar. For the record, I am not saying that they are looking down their noses, just your snarky attitude seems to imply that you are.

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    @DrDave, sorry but you're wrong here. At f/0.85 the 25mm was very cinematic. Noktor/Nokton type lenses let crop format cameras achieve the look and feel of larger sensor imagery. It's typical SLR lenses attached to crop sensors that lack cinematic appeal. That f/0.85 is still a more open aperture than f/2 in Super 35mm terms. Very few filmmakers work that wide open much less wider still because it takes a rare 1st AC to make it work.

    Also, how exactly does one get bokeh without corresponding falloff in depth? Whatever, here's a video of this lens in action on a BMPCC:

    ...the D16 stands to benefit from lenses this fast even more than the Blackmagic because of the D16's slow sensor. Of course, a D16 specific Speedbooster would be pretty fantastic but I'm betting they're going to have to get their numbers up before such a new product is worthwhile.

  • luekioluekio

    M43 mount is supposed to come next month. Praying metabones makes EF bmppc or d16 speedbooster as the nikkon mount is very limiting.

    @BurnetRhoades: I have the same fujinon 0.85 Joe has been using. It's a super cool lens, performs surprisingly well at 0.85

    @Vitaliy "Something tells me that financial resources of DB is near the end."

    Bold statement, got any facts to back it up?

  • DrDaveDrDave

    @BurnetRhoades you can perhaps get good Bokeh but you can't get decent DOF which is a limitation for a cinematic image. If they could get a 4/3 mount they would have at least the option for a Metabones adapter.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Something tells me that financial resources of DB is near the end.

    And Chinon Bellami will be camera for the fans of old retro look.

  • lunalobo75lunalobo75

    Couple of videos to check out:

    and

  • BurnetRhoadesBurnetRhoades

    Talking to the folks at the SXSW booth, expect 4:3 and anamorphic announcements at NAB. Speed ramp via the crank is apparently the hardest feature on their plate but I believe they also said look towards NAB for something there.

    They had a fairly cool little f/0.85 c-mount prime attached that created a surprisingly beautiful image with pretty fantastic bokeh. The bokeh issue is one of lenses, not the sensor size. If you can invest in the right lenses there are no concerns over being able to get a very cinematic image.

    I'm still waaay more sold on any of the three BMD cameras being a better deal for the money and more flexible.

  • cantsincantsin

    The camera arrived too late. It was announced almost exactly two years ago, in March 2012. That was one month before it was even known that Blackmagic would enter the same market with its own raw-recording video camera, and more than one year (!) before the first announcement of the Blackmagic Pocket Cinema Camera (which nevertheless was rolled out half a year earlier than the D16).

    If they actually had delivered their camera in the first half of 2012, they would have had some momentum and advantage over Blackmagic and other cameras (including Canon DSLRs with MagicLantern raw). Today, their tech isn't competitive anymore and way overpriced for what it offers.

    And yeah, all the D-Bolex fanboy talk about the image looking more like film is complete rubbish. It looks like CCD video, not surprisingly. (That includes Bloom's footage as well.) I doubt that any of these people ever shot 16mm film and know what reversal stock or a negative print looks like. It's like saying that Instagram looks like Polaroid.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    @luekio If you look at the review, you can see he says over and over that 200 ISO is the usable limit. Watch the full review. It's pretty obvious that he doesn't want to totally slam the camera, but in the review the only time he is really talking enthusiastically is when he is talking about the leather camera bag. He owns up that he would not use it for professional use. That rules out everyone except non professionals. He also says "other cameras outperform it in every single way". So that means for both amateurs and professionals, you would be better off with a different camera for every single video task.

    There's another part of the review which is telling. It's obvious that the $999 BMCC combined with the Metabones gives the BMCC a huge advantage, so he talks in the review about how he suggested to the Bolex team to make a m4/3 version that can be fitted with a metabones adapter. Obviously, the 1 stop in speed plus possibly the option for DOF would make this a better camera. And there is no real DOF on the Bolex, without some option for shallow DOF it isn't really usable for indie film makers.

  • luekioluekio

    @DrDave Oh dear, ISO 200 is the NATIVE iso, not the limit.

    I'm a camera owner and I agree with bloom this is not the camera of choice for the type of work he does, which is corporate, commercial stuff. His $30k f55 camcorder would be the ideal choice :P

    D16 It is however perfect for 16mm enthusiasts, indie filmmakers and anyone who is fed up with the videoish look, moire, aliasing and rolling shutter of the other options in this price range. I've been shooting with it for a couple of weeks myself and can confirm it has NONE of those problems and the image is gorgeous!

    Not for everyone though, for example if you want to shoot weddings/events/your cats a gh4 would be a much better choice.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    I did get the feeling, and I appreciate the time it takes to make a review, that the lede was buried. Just lead with "Not for professional work." I was disappointed that he thought ISO 200 was the limit. I can't film everything at ISO 200.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Most interesting is to know source of finances that allow DB to survive still.

  • DrDaveDrDave

    Shorter review "I just don't see myself using this camera on a professional job (26 minutes in)...other cameras outperform it in every single way"

  • nomadnomad

    If you read between the lines, he nailed it pretty well: it's more of a lifestyle item than a workhorse!

  • lunalobo75lunalobo75

    Blooms' review of the D16 is up:

  • spacewigspacewig

    Donna should stop eating her profits and buy a neatvideo license instead for the guys who filmed and edited the clip of her bakery.

  • robmneilsonrobmneilson

    Damn, the Peter Pan video is some of the worst footage I've seen lately. However that donut shop is amazing, makes me miss my old neighborhood big time (especially the donut ice cream sandwiches in summer).

  • thornthorn

    Perhaps the shooter was having a donut sugar rush, and then filmed during an earthquake.

    Gah. There's no "style" to that, any more than hearing someone play an out-of-tune piano. It simply looks like crap. Beyond the shakes, it's washed out, so overly lacking contrast... not impressed. It's like they use a "cut scene from HalfLife2" filter.

  • vicharrisvicharris

    Saw that video before. Had to turn it off. The jitters were giving me a headache. I saw someone say that it was part of the style. Well good luck with that. :)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

  • last_SHIFTlast_SHIFT

    I see an announcement at NAB... image

    w7Zxo2d.jpg
    426 x 297 - 42K
  • DrDaveDrDave

    Thanks @lunalobo75, I hope you receive your camera real soon! You certainly have waited.

  • lunalobo75lunalobo75

    @DrDave When I receive my camera, I can do a voltage test for you. I know it doesn't answer your other questions, but hopefully I can help in some small way. I would try and email them directly again about repairs (which I assume would be in Canada for right now) and the international license issues; or post on the DB16 forum, that might work too.

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