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GH2 - Modular settings - anyone interested?
  • duartixduartix

    Cheers.

    Since there are 4 AVCHD + 4 MJPEG modes on the GH2 it's nearly impossible to get a complete settings file that fulfills everyone's personal needs, wouldn't it be useful if the patches would be more modular, ex: (separate settings for 24H, 24L, 1080i50/60, 720p50/60, various MJPEG, etc)? This way anyone could make their own mixes tailoring them to how much bitrate they want to spend for each setting, or to their SD card speeds by merging the modular text files together for a complete personal patch.

    It's been hard to try to do this myself because I don't know the correspondence of each setting to each mode. I don't even know if this is impossible due to shared settings between modes but it would be nice if we had that power.

    What do you think?

  • 45 Replies sorted by
  • duartixduartix

    @Alexauwa : Where else? http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/953/gh2-patch-vault-most-popular-patches-in-one-place#Item_27

  • AlexauwaAlexauwa

    @mickos Where do I get the latest Quantum 100 from?

    Someone please let me know the link.

  • driftwooddriftwood

    @Ralph_B Toying with the encoder settings is most probable. It shouldnt brick it, just go bonkers/green, etc... if you put an unworkable value in encoder. The encoders are still fairly mysterious. No one absolutely knows what they do, but Ive done many different tests using an array of different values. Take a look at the defaults, spot trends. For example;-

    We do know that encoder Settings 1 effect frame types and stability ie 720p encoder1 = 3 gives B frames, encoder setting 1080p/i set to 2 or 1 I found gives i frames only in GOP1 - ie no 2nd frame p slice).

    In the past some people suggested they could be related to the default factory scaling factors for quantisation tables (Emul on July 27 2011) and that a factor of 3 could be being used throughout(3×17=51 for example). Another interesting trend to spot is that all the 1080i settings seem to be an 'addition' setting of 720p + 1080p [e.g. 720p Setting 4 (9) + 1080p Setting 4 (8) = Setting 4 1080i(17)] and that changes effecting one set may have to be carried through using this 'additional' factor. Settings 1 could purport to i frames, setting 2 to P frames, setting 3 could be for B frames, and setting 4 some kind of fallback/ initialiser. Equally setting 1- 4 could relate to the Quantiser Scalers/ related to Panasonic's own alogorithms for Quantisation.

    I have experimented with different settings in some of the Quantum BETA patches and seen that lowering or enlarging these encoder settings is possible without destabilising the camera by using this additional factor. Whether or not this improves Q or is necessary for stable higher bitrates or to help widen other parameters remains to be proven. So, if things get stabilised by adjusting any of these settings we still don't know why and what they are doing.

  • mickosmickos

    Yeah, too true, though I'm happy at this (exciting) stage of patch production to sacrifice the length just to have that option in-camera, as I'm mostly using 24p modes and I'm liking the new interlaced modes in the FlowMotion too. I just grab a timelapse if an opportunity arises, but I'm looking forward to a specialist timelapse card. Very interesting discussion at gh2-mjpeg-resolution...!

  • duartixduartix

    @mickos:

    Have you seen this? http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2111/gh2-mjpeg-resolution-findings-and-myth-busting/p1

    BTW, as you said, there is no point in maintaining the same quantization/tables when recording length is the other main objective beyond IQ. A better balance is in order.

  • mickosmickos

    Here is the latest LPowell Flowmotion 100Mbps patch with just one small change - the MJPEG framerate changed to 2fps for use in timelapser. Not very efficient; only about 41mins on a 32Gb card due to the MJPEG compression table values, and a bit of a waste of the patch MJPEG settings, but might be useful.

    GH2 v1.0E 100Mbps Flow Motion Patch Executive Summary:

    100Mbps AVCHD in 1080p24, 1080i50/60 & 720p50/60 at 8-12 keyframes/sec.

    50Mbps AVCHD file-spanning in 24L and FH video modes; 30Mbps in H mode.

    100Mbps MJPEG 1080p Patch maintains high bitrates regardless of light levels.

    Optimizes quantizer tables to produce P and B-frames that match I-frame quality.

    Efficiently combines maximum I-frame size with compact, short-GOP file size.

    Compatible with all NTSC and PAL video modes, 80% Slo-mo, and ETC mode.

    Works reliably on standard Class 10 SD cards, with in-camera playback in all modes.

    V1.1 will feature customized quantizer tables combined with 25p HBR support!

    seti.ini.zip
    836B
  • duartixduartix

    Thanks @LPowell. I'm getting the point...

  • mbowen84mbowen84

    ,

  • LPowellLPowell

    @duartix Beware, 720p is intricately entangled with 1080i settings. Beyond here lie dragons.

  • mbowen84mbowen84

    can anyone tell me if 30p is working yet with the hack?

  • duartixduartix

    One last modular question: 720p settings are independent from 1080i/p or are there any shared ones that you know about? Thanks again.

  • stoneystoney

    Let's keep it simple. Complete settings in a file. No modular approach. Actually PTool already has the basic sequantial setting file loading which I do not prefer either.

  • LPowellLPowell

    @Ralph_B I was experimenting with using B-frames in 720p60 mode at the time. Although I'm not 100% sure that was what caused the near-fatal incident, I've since abandoned that approach for other reasons. I'd advise anyone to proceed with caution when making changes to GOP structure.

  • Ralph_BRalph_B

    @LPowell Even if you don't fully understand what caused your near disaster, I hope you will share what you do know. Bricking a camera is the last thing any of us want to happen.

  • ChhatrapalChhatrapal

    @LPowell Great ... @duratix I will try your MJPEG settings soon

  • LPowellLPowell

    @Chhatrapal Yes, MJPEG and AVCHD settings are completely separate and do not have any effect on each other.

  • ChhatrapalChhatrapal

    I used above @mickos tweaked Quantum 100 ... It worked out to be fine. @LPowell @driftwood I just wanted to ask if changing settings of MPEG Mode on Quantum 100 is safe? Are MPEG and AVCHD streams are separate? And i don't intend to use 1080i. Even if the things are grey i don't want to take risk rather i will look for separate timelapse patch.

  • duartixduartix

    @Chhatrapal : If you really need the lenght that only AVCHD can give you, I've got this (somehow old by today's standards) mix of 24P settings by bkmcwd and cbrandin 44M_32M which I believe I changed for GOP 12(13?) and gave me good if not stellar results for regular video and near 4h timelapses on 16GB.

    seta.txt
    1K
  • ChhatrapalChhatrapal

    @LPowell Scary ... even if i have to sacrifice Time lapse thing :((

  • duartixduartix

    @Lpowell: True, the AVCHD settings do seem to have too much interplay between modes. ATM it's either a long GOP (like 13) to get timelapses going without spending or if going modular, it's got to be in the lines of the MJPEG set I attached. Thanks for the expert opinion, it's very much appreciated.

    P.S. Oh, and thanks for the warning!

  • ChhatrapalChhatrapal

    I tried variable movie mode 300% route on Quantum 100 in 24L settings at 1/8 shutter, lowest it allowed me. Also because it was showing 3hrs duration ... But only recorded 12 mins. Will load Aquamotion to try the same thing again. @duratix i will also try your MPEG settings ... but even default MPEG on Quantum is not good as Intra!

  • LPowellLPowell

    Sorry to dump cold water on this idea, but Panasonic's firmware was not designed as a safe, user-friendly platform for mixing and matching patches. In the AVCHD encoder, there are numerous patches that affect more than one type of video mode and very little documentation of how they may interact. There is no indication of what the limits of safe and reliable operation are for most of the patches, and in many cases, appropriate settings will vary depending on how other patches are set. Panasonic compiled the firmware as a sealed, embedded system with no built-in safety precautions for experimentation and it is loaded with undocumented hazards.

    At one point during my own testing, I inadvertently created a patch that recorded a video that exceeded the limits of an internal buffer and obliterated some of the firmware code that controls the camera. This not only broke the GH2's video functions but sabotaged part of the firmware that loads new patches. As a result, I was unable to install any further patches or restore the original firmware.

    Fortunately, I was eventually able to restore the camera's patch functions and reload clean firmware, but for some time it looked like I would have to send it back to Panasonic for factory service. While I have a fairly good idea of how to avoid this lethal pitfall in the future, I don't understand the hazards well enough to offer safe guidance to anyone else. And if it could happen to me...

  • duartixduartix

    @driftwood: Been all night trying working to get your Quantum 100-50 to do GOP 13 on 60i (this way I could use it for 2fps timelapses and keep 50i and 24p untouched) but to no avail, it's still Full Intra... I must be missing something very basic. :(

    I could only get longer GOPs to work on 24p and even then I had to mess with 1080p Low Bottom Setting to get the bitrate to drop to reasonable 2fps bitrates. But since that messes with 24p Full Intra, it's out of the question...

    @driftwood & also @tycho: Even though I haven't given out yet, my feeling right now reflects what others have said before: the settings seem too much connected to get an efficient and dedicated timelapse mode from AVCHD without either breaking the 1080p modes or Full Intra.

    I'll surely try Baby Quantum tomorrow but my hopes aren't too high, meanwhile I have attached a MJPEG only timelapse modular patch set that uses the MJPEG HD and VGA settings on that magical 2048x868.

    On HD it gives 56m58s and it's roughly based on half the MJPEG bitrate (twice the quantisers) from Quantum 100-50.

    On VGA it gives 1h42m using the factory defaults for 720p MJPEG.

    On a quick look, I haven't spotted any distinguishable difference between the two, but since in 2fps we're using 1/15th of the frames of 720p MJPEG, we could possibly get factory stock quality with ( 2048 x 864 ) / ( 1280 x 720 x 15 )/ ~ 8x less bitrate, so I believe there is room for further savings after I objectively check the IQ...

    setd.txt
    904B
  • driftwooddriftwood

    @duartix An interesting discussion you present. Can you try out the new Quantum50 with 2fps and let me know?

  • ChhatrapalChhatrapal

    I wanted reply but i am trying to figure out things. @duratix is already into it ... it will take me some time catch up.

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