GoPro Hero3 , 4K is here in Baby Steps for $399.99!

trevmar

@mpgxsvcd By looking at your HERO3 clips I am guessing you are using the Protune clip from the camera, and not reconstructing the saturation and grading by 'developing' the 'camera-raw' video footage in Cinema Studio. When CS converts the footage to normal AVI-cineform, it takes the metadata stored in the Protune camera-raw clip, and uses it to restore the original densities in the 10-bit 4:2:2 AVI-cineform container. This is necessary because Protune uses a logarithmic density profile, not a gamma-based profile.

mpgxsvcd

@trevmar

You are right I just didn't have enough time to do those clips justice. You can get the idea of how nice it is to have wide and tight simultaneously though. I will try to do full processing on the next go round.

trevmar

I have started to get some 4K video now. My Black used to freeze every time I tried to stop recording at 4K. The screen would show the total recording time and freeze, no files on the SD card.

Initially fixed by switching the camera to PAL rather than NTSC. Recorded nicely in 4K and 2K7 until the camera got hot. Sigh...

stoney

For those eagerly waiting for Hero3, don't miss out this deal.

https://personal-view.com/talks/discussion/comment/98377#Comment_98377

Already backordered to 12/11.

trevmar

Battery life on the Black Hero3 -- running protune 2.7K 24p (the highest res mode, IMO), my battery lasts 1hr 17 minutes on a full charge. Adding the Touch Video BacPac reduces that to 1hr 8 minutes, not a crippling reduction.

Have already decided to use external 5V USB batteries for the Hero3 on longer shoots. It operates while charging the battery, and the internal one is really very weak (see paragraph 1) :)

trevmar

There is something wrong with Protune in 720p 120fps -- it gives me chunky noise, excessive sharpening, and artifacts.

I do really like the resolution, lack of moire, low noise and excellent editing capabilities of the 24T Protune. It is a real 'indoors camera.' Not as low noise as my Canon M41, but only a stop or two off that (very high) standard.

As soon as my 'frame' arrives (tomorrow?) I will dig out the tripod, and my ISO resolution chart, and make some more accurate resolution comparisons...

BlueBomberTurbo

Well, I did it. I cut a bigger hole in "The Frame" for an HDMI cable. ;) Had to go so far up that I even cut into the mic hole a bit, but it fits perfectly.

BTW, "The Frame" comes with both regular and BacPac size frames. So if you want to shoot 3D with a BacPac on just one camera, you only have to buy it once! :D Though you do need 2x tripod mounts. :p Picked up a macro rail slider to mount both cameras at once, so I can easily adjust intraoccular on the fly. Should arrive the middle of next week, and I've got a right angle micro HDMI adapter that'll arrive... whenever (China).

trevmar

Here are the ISO resolution Test Chart images from my Black HD3. Both are taken in what I have figured out to be the optimum resolution modes of the HD3.

All I can say is WOW !! The 1080p 24T crop is first, followed by the 2.7K cine 24T crop, then the full images for closer perusal. They were taken in 630 Lux of soft evening outdoors light. No white balance adjustment, no noise filtering. The Protune camera output was converted in GoPro Cineform Studio to Cineform AVI, with default sharpening filter applied in Virtualdub (which I used to make the screenshots). The 2.7K 24T has 50 points of sharpening applied, the 1080p has 32 points. No other processing.

** No Moire to speak of ** WOW !! **Higher res than my FZ200 and Canon M41 ** WOW!

For comparison I have added the same chart shot with my Canon M41.

Protune is amazing. That's all I can say...

trevmar

Hyperfocal distance? What are the Hero cameras set up to focus at? What is the useful range of focal distance?

The tests above were at a distance between the 36 x 24 inches test chart and the lens of only 17 inches. Clearly these cameras are set to focus at a distance much closer to the lens than the 100ft (or whatever) hyperfocal distance (which would give focus to infinity). Does any body know how the lenses are set up?

trevmar

Interesting to note that the vertical field of view is the same for the 2.7K Cine and 1080p shots above. This apparently scales more cleanly than other resolutions, as even the standard 16:9 2.7K was giving subjectively lower resolution than the 2.7K Cine. The extra 17:9 cine perspective is achieved by increasing the width of the image to 2704 pixels, interestingly NOT the 2716 pixels in the HD3 PDF manual. I am wondering if the sensor really is 12M pixels...

I found they have more work to do getting Protune working properly with the other resolutions. These two resolutions work well at 24p...

joeschmoe

How bad is 720p in protune? I've heard that the 120fps mode is not so great, but I'm wondering just how bad it really is... I've seen some slomo footage that didn't look too bad overall.

BlueBomberTurbo

@joeschmoe If you have any well defined lines in the scene, you'll have lots of issues:

http://www.personal-view.com/talks/uploads/FileUpload/e1/3644bd09630d15c093bf30d270af6a.jpg

And when you go to sharpen, it only gets worse.

joeschmoe

Hmm, I see what you mean. Is it only 720p 120fps protune, or is all 720p like that? I would likely shoot in 1080p or 2.7K and downrez in post if I needed 720p, but that 120fps can certainly be exciting at times...

trevmar

@joeschmoe Many of the modes seem 'unfinished' to me. The two modes I showed above in my resolution charts were the only two I was really impressed with for Protune. The 1080p_60 non-protune mode seems OK for sharpness, although I much prefer the protune density grading to the harsh contrast of the non-protune modes.

'Narrow' and 'Medium' modes didn't impress me, I felt I would be better cropping the wide modes. All in all I felt that they had a lot of work to do optimizing image quality in many of the available combinations.

It is possible they will get better quality out of the 720p modes with a firmware upgrade, and it is also possible that the sensor just doesn't scale well to 1280x720 as an exact fraction of the original sensor pixels.

I will connect up an HDMI 1080p TV this week and try to get a better feel for each mode. There are so many of them it is tough to keep track of the non-performers by recording individual clips...

konjow

@trevmar " I am guessing you are using the Protune clip from the camera, and not reconstructing the saturation and grading by 'developing' the 'camera-raw' video footage in Cinema Studio. When CS converts the footage to normal AVI-cineform, it takes the metadata stored in the Protune camera-raw clip, and uses it to restore the original densities in the 10-bit 4:2:2 AVI-cineform container. This is necessary because Protune uses a logarithmic density profile, not a gamma-based profile."

Im missing something here.. I know I should probably read more first...but tell me in two words please. I have Hero1 and now waiting on Black one. Is the Protune optional in gopro as a profile. and then have to be use with CS. Will I loose something now if use Protune straight into Premiere? Is Cineform Studio Gopros editing soft for people which has no other NLE soft or it does same magic? thank you

trevmar

@konjow I always 'develop' everything. The Cineform codec has been the foundation of my post-processing for many years. It has never let me down, incidentally...

GoPro's software can be used in a convert-only mode, that is how I use it. It also has a module which manipulates the metadata. Since you understand Cineform, you will love Protune. But it can be switched off, if you want a processing flow similar to your Hero 1.

I have been removing the fisheye lens artifacts with Sony Vegas, especially handy if cropping from the 2K7 mode.

KrisCanonizado

does anyone know how to remove the fisheye look using finalcutpro?

joeschmoe

@trevmar how are you removing the fisheye with Vegas? A plugin, or am I missing something in the built-in filters? And thanks for the extra info about the other modes feeling 'unfinished'. Good to know. Hopefully someday they will be 'finished' then!

trevmar

I use the inbuilt Sony Deform filter with values as attached. Start with these values, you might want to later add back a little fisheye in some of your scenes. Whenever you change a variable, also change the negative variable with the same value:

joeschmoe

Thanks for the settings, I'll try it out! I remember playing with that filter before but didn't come up with anything decent, so figured I was barking upt he wrong tree. I should've just stuck with it a little longer. Now I just need these things to get released in Canada... it's coming SOON!

obnoxious2

@trevmar " I am guessing you are using the Protune clip from the camera, and not reconstructing the saturation and grading by 'developing' the 'camera-raw' video footage in Cinema Studio. When CS converts the footage to normal AVI-cineform, it takes the metadata stored in the Protune camera-raw clip, and uses it to restore the original densities in the 10-bit 4:2:2 AVI-cineform container. This is necessary because Protune uses a logarithmic density profile, not a gamma-based profile."

Do you have to use cineform to convert to avi before using premiere pro to color correct? Will I lose density profile by just pulling the raw mp4 source into premiere pro and editing and exporting it from there?

BlueBomberTurbo

Premiere and After Effects will significantly clip the shadows and highlights. Run the MP4 through 5DtoRGB first using 601 to preserve them.

trevmar

@obnoxious2 @BlueBomberTurbo After running through GoPro Cineform Studio the metadata is retained in the 10-bit dynamic range 4:2:2 clip. That allows you to change white balance, brightness, saturation, etc, in a non-destructive manner. Which is what Cineform Studio does, before it exports to MP4 again. Cineform is a wonderful workflow, and has saved me a lot of grief over the years.

When you play with the MP4 files the dynamic range available is only 8 bits. This makes it tough to maintain gradation in the shadows and highlights.

konjow

Is this conversion needed for Gopro 1 etc as well or for Protune only? btw Cinema Studio=Cineform?

stoney

Oh gawd. I'm still waiting for GPB deal ($303) delivered to my door. Hopefully I get it this year before the snow!!!

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