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Panasonic AG-AC90 topic and comparison with GH2, video test
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  • AriaAria

    It should also be mentioned that you have a lot of fine tweaking parameters on the AC90 that you don't have on the X900. It reminds me of the AF100 vs. GH2 in terms of having a more Pro level of fine tuning versus a more simplified Consumer level of adjustment levels. For some that may be more important. Still you can likely get most of the same level of image quality from the X900 that you get from the AC90 if you didn't need the XLR and Rings on the lens barrel etc. X900 should make a great B cam for an AC90.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    Btw, X900 price is still on sales level, and internally it is almost the same as AC90.

  • tommytommy

    @tetakpatak @Mimirsan @paulo_teixeira @Paddy @eyenorth

    Just got back again. Yes I bought the AC90. The text that I wrote (that @tetakpatak is referring to) was before I bought the camera. I was considering the NEX VG900 (and all kind of other cameras) , but I chose the AC90 (for XLR, OIS, 1080 50P, budget, size, weight, batteries, appearance, etc) to combine with my GH2 I made the test with the 14-140 lens (because it was the only lens I had at that moment). I now have the 20 mm pancake and the GH2 wins in low light.
    (but with the 20 mm lens you can not zoom)

    So my personal conclusion: AC90 is much better for run and gun, fast, steady, flexible, and most important sound (I put my wireless sennheiser in 1 channel, and in the other XLR my Shotgun Mic, etc. If you have time to change lenses all the time, and record from a tripod, and sound is not important, the GH2 might win (but it doesn't have 1080 50p such as the AC90.)

    So I am 'happy' now for this moment. I hope in a some years there will be 1 camera that combines all the "pros" of both cameras.

    Hope you guys know enough. Perhaps in a few days, I can post a night time-lapse of both cameras (and compare with the 20mm pancake)...

  • PaddyPaddy

    I knew my point wasn't clear enough... For an absolute comparison of both cameras sensitivity/noise at a given ISO setting, yes indeed they should be tested with the exact same parameters, iow with a fast prime on the GH2 since you'll never see a 15-180, f:1.5 lens for the m43 format... But from a practical point of view? Tommy's test was meant to help him choose between two (very different in all respects) cameras ... Since the zoom on the AC90 isn't interchangeable, it was only fair to test it against a rather similar setup. "We talk about ISO 800 vs ISO 6400 with open iris, or ISO 400 vs 3200." Yes, and we talk about comparing a 4/3 sensor vs. three 1/4.7" sensors! I suppose it all sums up to "get a AC90 AND a GH3 with a series of fast primes" to cover all situations, too bad I can't afford both!

  • tetakpataktetakpatak

    @Paddy

    Of course, it would also be quite interesting to compare the results of both cams w/ a prime at 1.5 on the GHx, but then both cameras settings should be identical, except for the ISO setting of course..

    sorry mate, but isn't this nonsense? I meant the low-light situation, where roughly 3EV difference is unmatchable. We talk about ISO 800 vs ISO 6400 with open iris, or ISO 400 vs 3200. Slower lens forses gaining ISO and it produces noise. With Voigtländer or Leica 25mm prime lens at f1.4 one wouldn't belive it is the same GH2. That is what I meant.....

  • eyenortheyenorth

    @tommy

    just came over this test of the Sony NEX EA50:

    It seems the NEX EA50 uses a different downscaling than NEX VG20,30 etc. From this test aliasing and moire is very well controlled on the NEX EA50. NEX VG10-30 are quite bad in that department.

  • PaddyPaddy

    Wakening this thread up hoping to get new impressions from Tommy when he gets back from his second shooting with the AC90...

    @tetakpak:

    "It is insane to use f/4.0-5.6 lens and compare it in test to another camera with f/1.5 lens."

    I don't feel it's that unfair, on the contrary: with its 10:1 range, the 14-140 is the only zoom that closely matches on the GH series the 12:1 on the AC90, and it's a standard lens. Beside, it is said that the AC90 sensitivity is about 40 ISO, so the max iris difference compensates partly for the sensitivity difference with the GH2.

    Of course, it would also be quite interesting to compare the results of both cams w/ a prime at 1.5 on the GHx, but then both cameras settings should be identical, except for the ISO setting of course... Hope I'm clear, English is not my mother language...

  • tetakpataktetakpatak

    @tommy
    Very interesting topic. Did you meanwhile buy the AC90?

    For me it is 'almost' fine, for now (until some better large sensor video cameras shows up.) Just the lack of ND, and a bigger sensor to get more DOF would be lovely. I don't mind to spend extra money, but for what?

    Would the new Sony's full frame camcorder NEX-VG900 be an option for you?

    but is there a new standard easy to handle video camera with large sensor that is good and will not be outdated in a few years ?

    Who knows? It's our consumer society who outdates the things. Even in our community barely anybody mentions GH1 anymore. You can use it for long, we freaks think about 4k but many consumers still prefer buying DVDs. Many of my friends didn't hear of Blue-Ray-Disc yet!

    Whole test with Lens 14-140mm, smallest F, shutter 50, ISO 3200

    This lens is optically good, but not top class. Besides,it is very slow so be sure your GH2 could have done much more than in this kind of test. It is insane to use f/4.0-5.6 lens and compare it in test to another camera with f/1.5 lens. Even comparing it with another GH2 where some superb and fast lens would be mounted, it would just look like two different cameras. Yet, I liked IQ of the AC90. I am actually impressed that the IQ of the GH2 in low light (room/picture) didn't look any worse with such a slow lens.

  • TheWindchargerTheWindcharger

  • TheWindchargerTheWindcharger

    hier is one test Panasonicac90

  • tommytommy

    Hi,i just returned from shooting abroad with the ac90, and leave again tomorrow. I was very satisfied, and it was a relief to be flexibel with both a shotgun mic, wireless lav set and a camera lamp on the camera. I must admit I also still shot much with the GH2 (when sound was less important and I had some time to adjust settings). With those two cameras (and my sony hdr15) I can do what i need. About low light: in my test I did not have the 20mm pancake yet. If i use that lens... the GH2 wins a few stops (sorry no time to make a comparison test. )from the ac90. But for the rest very satisfied

  • paulo_teixeirapaulo_teixeira

    Low light is just 1 of many important factors when comparing camcorders from different companies.

  • paulo_teixeirapaulo_teixeira

    The AC90 seams to be available now. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/893072-REG/Panasonic_agac90pj_AG_AC90_AVCCAM_Handheld_Camcorder.html

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Mimirsan

    Yep. I like this thing, yep :-). As I think that 3D camcorders are much better for normal home video.

    TD10 can be also got for cheap if you spend your time and wait. It is good to remember that it is also 2D camera with all necessary connections (headphones, mike), lanc, sony shoe, has sony wheel.

  • MimirsanMimirsan

    @VK Did your TD10 arrive? how do you like it? We need a "general prosumer camcorder thread" :-)

  • MimirsanMimirsan

    True forgot about the other added extras like projector. Funny the cx730 doesnt have it where cheaper Sonycams do. I dont miss not having one though. :-D

    If lowlights the thing you need the new wave Sony camcorders seem to be the better option for now.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @Mimirsan

    You must compare to PJ camera, as it has build in projector.

    Also it has timecode that you can reset via remote for all cameras at once -

    HXR-NX30E allows timecode to be centrally reset using an infrared remote control for easy synchronization of video from multiple cameras

  • MimirsanMimirsan

    +1 On the NX30 its a great camcorder and if you dont need xlrs you can go for the CX730 if you want to save cash. Again same specs/sensor/stablisation. They are all superb at lowlight as well. ;-)

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @paulo_teixeira

    Check this one also, it has better stabilizer, and it is similar to AC in regard that it has many common things with top consumer Sony camera.

    http://www.personal-view.com/talks/discussion/2757/sony-hxr-nx30-pro-camcorder-topic

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    I'd still be curious to know how it compares to the consumer versions like the X900.

    My understanding is that it is same camera internally (same optics, same sensors, same LSI).

  • paulo_teixeirapaulo_teixeira

    I thought of the AC160a in the past in case I start getting more video gigs than usual but I do like the slightly smaller size of the AC90 and still a bit cheaper and even if I end up not getting the AC90, I'd still be curious to know how it compares to the consumer versions like the X900. It will definitely be an interesting comparison as long as the person doing the tests match all the settings.

  • Vitaliy_KiselevVitaliy_Kiselev

    @paulo_teixeira

    Thing is, try to look for AC160 also, as I see them going on ebay below $3000.

    It has better sensors, better features (ND filters, etc).

  • paulo_teixeirapaulo_teixeira

    Yes, somebody should really try to test the low light capabilities between the X900 or even the older TM900 to the AC90. If I had the spare cash, I'd get the AC90 because it has a lot of good features over the X900 but I'd still like to know the low light quality difference especially in 1080 60p. The bit rates are about the same in 1080 60p. When it comes to 24p, it's put inside a 60i wrapper and the bit rate is about 17Mbps for both the Tm900 and newer X900. You usually have to remove pull-down which NeoScene can do. With the AC90, not only is it 24p from the very beginning without needing to convert it, the bit rate is also higher.

    Z10000: - chip sizes: 1/4.1" - Total pixels: 3.05 megapixels - Effective video Pixels: 2.19 megapixels

    X900: - Chip sizes: 1/4.1" - Total Pixels : 3.05 megapixels - Effective video Pixels :2.19 - 2.07 megapixels

    AC190 - chip sizes: 1/4.7" - Total: Approx. 2,630K - Effective video pixels: 2.19

    Somebody will have to correct me in the AC90 specs. Some places say 2.630 total and other places say 2.19 so is it around 2.63 total and 2.19 for video? or is it really 2.19 all together?

    Anyway, it's true that most of the units that are out are PAL so in that case comparing 25p and 50p is fine.

  • mozesmozes

    here is the advance.
    ftp://ftp.panasonic.com/pub/Panasonic/business/provideo/op_manuals/AG-AC90_Operating_Instructions_Advance.pdf

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