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Capitalism: Issue with ITER
  • According to Fusion for Energy--the EU's joint undertaking for ITER--18 niobium-tin superconducting magnets, aka toroidal field coils, will be used to contain the 150 million degrees celsius plasma. The powerful magnets will generate a powerful magnetic field equal to 11.8 Tesla, or a million times stronger than the earth's magnetic field. Nearly 3,000 tonnes of these superconducting magnets will be connected by 200km of superconducting cables and kept at -269C by the world's largest cryostat manufactured in India.

    Issue with any such reactors is that in reality they will never work.

    During any real thermonuclear reaction you have particles that don't have any charge and hence can't be held with any fields, and it does not matter how strong they are. They have big energies and almost instantly destroy any walls or protection you can come up with. ITER proposal is to use 1 meter thick walls, but they won't be use for any real life reactor functioning, instead it will be tiny research runs where you can for year tell some promising wordsa dn show presentations.

    All the guys who are behing ITER know this, yet they spend huge money of working people on such thing. And before it spent around 5x more on smaller versions of same concept in many countries. All of them utterly failed to do anything besides some particles research results and getting more knowledge of keeping plasma in more or less control. Btw it is another problem, as reactor need to keep control of the plasma for very long periods and ue to instabilities they can't do any of this yet.

    Even worse, people behind ITER now repeatedly promized breakthroughs before, since 1960th, spending lot of money and having no practical results. Here in mordor, guy who had been head of all tokomaks projects gave interview in 91 or 92 year openly telling that they intentionally induced maximal financial damage to the country knowing that thing will never work (to make communist regime fall, as he said).

    Some finance facts:

    • Original budget promized to tax payers - $10-12 billions
    • Present budget - $50 billions
    • Expected actual budget - around $150-270 billions


    • Actual first plasma (not suitable for any thermonuclear reaction) is promised at best at 2025.
    • First tiny attempt of synthesis will happen in 2035 (staff working on ITER plans to eat around $10-20 billions to this date)
    • Actual more or less energy efficient operation promised to around 2040, but can delay to 2045 (and they will eat another $20 billions)
    • Even at best times they plan to inject 50MWt into plasma using around 620Mwt of total consumption to get 500Mwt theoreticl output (all of it won't be even collected). Not impressive at all, quite reverse.
    • But it will be virual efficiency as no way of even research on how to collect energy exist in this project
  • 6 Replies sorted by
  • Do you really think this is only used for this proyect?

    Don’t be naive. It’s obviously money redirected to something else. Any time this amounts of cash are inserted to this projects other ”projects” also benefits.

    Thing is how much really goes to this kind of things cos all the years you tell me a no advancement...hmm smells fishi.

  • At this stage, we are not talking about the commercial production of electricity by fusion. Neutrons will not be captured and their energy will not be converted to electricity. Neutrons will leave the installation and will be trapped by the building's concrete walls. Particles will penetrate into rooms and cells, so there will be no people in the building during installation

    Official description.

    It is as if during first nuclear plant people instead of making proper thing just got 50 billion USD and for this just piled Uranium in some dug hole to make it self heat and called it huge breakthrough.

    They also have huge, really huge issue with plasma control, so whole protocols and design is build around to not show it. One small thing with unstable plasma touching the wall - and all thing could require repairs that will take years. It is not thing suitable for any serious stuff even in distant future, but it can feed thousands of parasites.

  • Mordor paid for new laser based sphere for thermonuclear research

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    Since around 1965 USSR and Mordor later paid staggering amount of billions for similar things and ITER like things. Yet it is absolutely zero output from this, if you do not count actual shit going out of researchers and their shitty quality papers.

    All this happen due to staggered irresponsibility.

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  • 1965 was Soviet-era. Are you gasp critical of the Soviet ?

  • @zcream

    1965 was Soviet-era. Are you gasp critical of the Soviet ?

    I am critical of group of people who literally became parasites.

    It is common problem as such groups of parasites are hanging on all the developed countries like worms.

    As for USSR critique - USSR had been very far from ideal, but standing for its core values is important as it is bashed by all capitalist mass media.