If successful it is be major blow for US, as it sets China one small step away to destroy myth of fake Apollo lunar missions.
And this step can be required during next stage of economic war to almost kill morale in US.
@VK, do you think USA never land on the moon ?
It is not that I have such personal opinion :-) it is lot of facts that tell such. US too badly needed this landings, but, unfortunately, tech was not up to the task.
Our beloved opportunists after this destroyed(!) all Lunar mission ships and rockets. Including all drafts and 90% of all communication archives. As they knew that big plan will fail otherwise (fake Lunar landings helped to dismantle socialism a lot!).
I totally agree.
I hope the proof of this duck will never be found. It would not help anyone, on the contrary, it does more harm than good. And at the same time I think it would make the whole planet laugh :-)))
Personally, I think going to the moon is not as impressive as it is for all of humanity to believe. This lie is poetic somewhere.
And just for that, I love America <3
It had been quite fun as previous Chinese mission guys explained why resolution of photos was so low that it is impossible to check Apollo sites :-)
Usually each mission always go right before important moment in economic relations, this one is big warning to Baiden as he needs to keep promises and dismantle most tariffs.
I agree.
And I bet the Chinese will land on the invisible side of the moon ;-)
Even popular culture, now preparing Chinese kids to go to the moon and work at first Chinese restaurant on lunar surface :)
From Shanghai Pearl Studio Film and Television Technology Co., Ltd and Netflix, a US/China Coproduction.
OVER THE MOON (2020) is a musical adventure about a girl who builds a rocket ship to travel to the moon in order to prove to her father that a legendary Moon Goddess ( Chang'e ) really exists. When she gets to the “other side” she unexpectedly discovers a whimsical world filled with fantastical creatures - some of whom threaten her and others who ultimately help her find her way home
@Vitaliy_Kiselev @flash so your contention is Apollo missions 10 through 17 have been deep faked, and the Chinese will use that as geopolitical blackmail. This is unprovable either way over the internet, but new cold war movies could come out of it. I've learnt that some of the craziest conspiracy theories can sometimes be real, so I don't have my own opinion, I'm just noticing the filmmaking potential :-)
so your contention is Apollo missions 10 through 17 have been deep faked, and the Chinese will use that as geopolitical blackmail.
Also Apollo-Soyus had been faked. Actually it had been most fun fake.
I think China already have nice proof, but they want to make it into atomic bomb like force impact on US morale.
Right now US are sure that they can negotiate the terms, as Chinese elites are similar opportunists to USSR ones. But if something will happen inside China - the bomb can detonate.
@Vitaliy_Kiselev I'm enjoying this conversation. I hold no opinion wrt whether they were or weren't faked. The question I pose is this: What would constitute positive proof, coming from the Chinese, that those missions (their Moon landing portion, anyway) were faked? Substitute with Red and Blue instead of China and the US, to remove personal bias. What proof could team Red offer in the court of public opinion, where these matters are judged, that team Blue faked the missions?
If it wasn't faked, they would find artifacts left on the moon, including:
Bottom half of Lunar Module/Lander
TV camera
Tools, shovels
Objects and equipment for scientific experiments
The Lunar Roving Vehicle (LRV)
Various personal artifacts, golf balls, Apollo 16 Charles Duke’s family photo
Disposal Bags of human waste
US Flag
footprints on surface, if not worn away
If faked, where did the moon rocks come from? A meteorite from Papua New Guinea?
If faked, Biden has to really rush to plant those things on the moon ASAP :)
Fun discussion ;-)
But one thing: The USA landed on the moon at least once, as there is a special mirror positioned on the moon for distance measurement (still in use). Weather this landing was one of the "official" ones and if there where any others... I don't know.
Oh, and Chinese could land on the moon and clean up (remove all US remanents) and then "show" the world that US is lying. Or they could just fake there own landing and show a clean moon to the world... so many possibilities.
@Psyco "so many possibilities" exactly, however I don't think there's a scenario where the Chinese could prove beyond doubt the US landings didn't happen, even if it were actually true. They'd be "cancelled", explained away, or dismissed as propaganda. All they could do convincingly is confirm the landings did happen, if they actually did :-)
This mirror that you speak of, does it have known coordinates? Can anyone with the proper laser and targeting bounce a signal off it? This is independent 3rd party confirmation. Still, the mirror could just be on the back of a rover, and rovers have been done for sure, by the US, USSR, and recently China.
If Chinese proof USA wrong, it will be one of the most humiliating things exposed ever. All boomers from USA will get depressed and young people raged!!
I don’t think many would give a shit in the US if this is the case. Personal identity for most here is so so far removed from that kind of nationalism on technology. The new god here is the self not the nation. Selfish motherfuckers here.
I don’t think many would give a shit in the US if this is the case. Personal identity for most here is so so far removed from that kind of nationalism on technology. The new god here is the self not the nation. Selfish motherfuckers here.
You are badly wrong.
For example, even in Mordor locally any NASA sponsored so called "space influences" (we have around 7-8 of such, google push them hard) have main goal - proving at each and every public talk (even not related) that Apollo missions had been all real and anyone who doubt it are morons and must be punished (in recent 2 years they call for total censorship!).
People are more likely to develop health issues with extended time in space, such as cardiovascular and sleep disruptions. But why? Scientists might have an idea. They’ve published research indicating that mitochondria, the energy-producing “powerhouses” of cells, may play a key role. Bodily fluid samples from many other astronauts also supported claims that mitochondrial activity changed while in space.
The potential breakthrough came in part thanks to NASA’s open-source GeneLab platform.
The findings reinforce concerns that astronauts could face significant health challenges going forward, particularly for trips to the Moon and Mars. The discovery could be crucial to overcoming those problems, however.
Note that all 100% NASA fake moon trips had zero health issues and overall they felt like even better than before the trips.
Problem had been that NASA at the time had zero knowledge of real problems that happen during such trip.
Hmm. if they went to the moon so many times, why didn't they measure the radiation on those missions?
"Radiation on moon's surface measured for the first time, study says
When the next astronaut to reach the moon walks on the lunar surface in 2024, she'll face radiation levels 200 times higher than on Earth. While Apollo mission astronauts carried dosimeters to the moon to measure radiation, the data was never reported.
The first systematically documented measurements of radiation on the moon were undertaken in January 2019 when China's Chang'e 4 robotic spacecraft mission landed on the far side of the Moon, according to a new study in the journal Science Advances. Astronauts on moon missions would experience an average daily radiation dose equivalent to 1,369 microsieverts per day -- about 2.6 times higher than the International Space Station crew's daily dose, the study said.
"The radiation levels we measured on the Moon are about 200 times higher than on the surface of the Earth and 5 to 10 times higher than on a flight from New York to Frankfurt," said Robert Wimmer-Schweingruber, a professor of physics at the University of Kiel in Germany and the corresponding author of the study that published Friday, in a statement.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/25/world/moon-radiation-astronauts-exposure-scn/index.html
As NASA at the Apollo time still couldn't even make rocket to go around the earth one time (all rockets, including all Apollo ones just fall into ocean not getting enough attitude) - they did not care.
@Vitaliy_Kiselev these are very tall claims to make! Not only the entire Apollo program, but much of the Mercury program too would have to have been faked!
What about the Soviet program, Vitaliy? Did the Laika doggie make orbit? Did Gagarin make orbit? If he did, why couldn't von Braun replicate what the USSR-bound portion of his Peenemünde team achieved? I find your average theories ~60% possible, and ~40% probable, but this one is jumping the shark. Disputing the actual landings is one thing, disputing orbital capability is quite another. I'm not a US citizen, so there is no patriotism involved. Not even Sputnik (the Kremlin propaganda media agency) would dare making the claims you make, for which of course you have no evidence.
these are very tall claims to make! Not only the entire Apollo program, but much of the Mercury program too would have to have been faked!
It is actually only very mild statements. But causes had been purely technical and organization. yes, and von Braun played big role also.
Disputing the actual landings is one thing, disputing orbital capability is quite another. Not even Sputnik (the Kremlin propaganda media agency) would dare making the claims you make, for which of course you have no evidence.
Disputing US moon program actually (in all serious guys whom I checked) start from early suborbital flights (US had been also open that they are suborbital).
You will be surprised, but actually guys who infiltrated soviet space program worked hard to destroy as much as they can. Now our space agency is mostly bad joke that live on the remains of great institutions and factories, but they are going down one by one. Recently they closed in Moscow some core of them as making cheap buildings and selling them via credits is more profitable for new owners (in the range of 3-4 years until they will flee into EU).
What about the Soviet program, Vitaliy? Did the Laika doggie make orbit? Did Gagarin make orbit? If he did, why couldn't von Braun replicate what the USSR-bound portion of his Peenemünde team achieved?
All is ok with soviet program. CIA and NASA had direct access for around 4-5 years during early 90s to check and steal lot of stufff.
Because USSR made huge new industry with tens of thousands of new specialists and hundreds of factories, at least 15 new big science research facilities, contrary to US, who still focused on von Braun.
USSR started to be worse in computers and electronics, but only due to the fact that elite group who finally made USSR destruction in 86-91 years already got tight grip on this sector in late 60th (but due to organization they did't have access to some military part of electronics and corresponding factories).
Important aspect also is geography, as US did not care so much on efficient very long range missiles (having much better carriers, bombers and ability to put nuclear missiles in EU).
I find this video pretty convincing. It’s the actual video of Apollo 11 landing side by side with a google simulation. It seems to me the landing was really.
Arguments in this thing are quite old.
Falsification of landing is pretty cheap to do and not require any CGI.
Do not know about US, but even is distant Mordor we have 4-5 widely known people who get full time salary (around 4-5x of salary of same local offers) and their official job is go around and support NASA (both offline and online, as it is full time job). Some of them are required to make similar videos and send reports of their doings. One of them some years ago openly told that all 100% of photos, arguments and video parts had been sent to him directly by NASA (but they asked that is should be presented as independent arguments). Officially NASA is not involved in all this directly, btw and always deny it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_retroreflectors_on_the_Moon
These reflectors where needed to measure the exact distance to the moon, which led to the discovery that the moon is moving away from earth (a rising full moon some million years ago was quite show ;-)
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