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Panasonic GH5S GH5 S, 4K Video Edition
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  • I use a GH4 (with it's much criticised 8 bit 4:2:0 4k H264 format) in multi-camera setups with Sony FS7, RED & BMD cameras and have never had a client notice. I'm sure you can see the difference, but my paying clients are extremely happy and love the finished, graded product.

  • @mrbill

    It’s a big ask for a significantly sub 2k camera to produce anything like the footage that a red, an arri, a varicam or even an fs7 produces

    To produce EXACTLY footage like these cams, yes... it is. But to get somewhere close? I don't think it's that far off. The Sony's are very nice, they do appear to actually make a 4k image and retain fine-textures... but they lack 60fps in 4k and a useable codec (for what I need). I can't even think of a project this year that I won't need 60fps over-cranking on... even for a B-Cam... so those are out. Then on the other hand, you've got the GH5's, great camera with great features... but the image doesn't even look like 2K. I really think the GH5 image comes down to too much noise processing. Even -5 doesn't seem far enough. All the great subtle-detail that makes a 4k image fun and immersive to watch is lost. The NR is probably just assuming it's noise and throwing it away... because the GH5's DO have lots of detail... but no texture. Everything seems to have this "outlined-crunch" to it. It's a very frustrating image.

    But, oh well. I guess the sub-2k camera aren't a total package yet. Maybe this year we'll see a Sony with 4:2:2 10-bit and 60fps at 4K... at least to an external recorder. Until then, I've got a Ursa 4.6k that don't own, but can use all the time... and a Red I'll be using for a few months coming up. It would have just been cool to have a small form-factor camera like the GH5s that could make a high-end image. I'll probably still rent one at least to make sure of myself...

  • @bwhitz - why not buy a Sony alpha series camera instead? It’s a big ask for a significantly sub 2k camera to produce anything like the footage that a red, an arri, a varicam or even an fs7 produces

  • @GeoffreyKenner Well, that's why I said I'm going to continue to look at videos and probably rent one myself... BUT, thus far, I haven't seen a GH5s video that appears to resolve over 2k. Maybe it does... but the details are all removed and it looks digitally sharp in the fine-areas (GH5 series needs a full-off setting). Like the camera is removing the natural fine-textures because it thinks it's noise or something. It's hard to explain, but like I said... I do work in the industry professionally... I look at Red, Alex, bla bla bla... footage all-day long, and shoot on it often. I know what to look for in terms of color-workflow, or when to overlook it... but I'm STILL not seeing that fine 4k smooth-detail that the Varican, EVA1, or Blackmagic's produce. Not trying to make any definitive statement... just observations thus far.

    The Varicam is certainly not as detailed-rich as the GH5s when it comes to the video you show.

    ?... Did you mean the other way around? The Varicam definitely has more detail... it looks like a RAW still image DSLRs take. Same look you get from Red 4k. (I mean, it should, it's a "pro cinema" camera) It's very-detailed, but not with any of the digitally-sharp grossness that dumb consumers confuse with detail. GH5s still look like upscaled 1080p (yes, I could be wrong for the 1000x time), even when downloading original files and such. Everything looks like it has "outlines" drawn around it.

  • @bwhitz

    The Varicam is certainly not as detailed-rich as the GH5s when it comes to the video you show. That being said, the Cinematographer clearly has a clue of what he's doing compared to a lot of GH5/s stuff which are done by VLogers on their vacation trip or approximate testing. You're comparing Panasonic commercial who hired a director/dp/colorist/.../ with the next kid buying this camera to do unboxing videos and travel reviews.

    Lastly, if you purely compare the two, here are things have noticed in the Varicam commercial and are absent in most GH5/s videos (and which are clearly known to create sharpness): 1) Chromatic Aberration, such a "mistake" in optic create sharpness, especially when it's thin. The reason is simple, it underline every lines and create micro-contrast. Compared to the overused Panasonic / Leica everyone use which are surgically soul-less (small distortion, vignetting, invisible chromatic aberration) 2) Colors, the color Grading in that video you posted is Great (because a colorist went through to make it look great), in many GH5/s stuff, people just apply a LUT and think "ok it's good now" while these camera can be used for VLoging, they usually need deep care in post-production workflow to be dealt with (and it's even worse with people shooting nowadays in Logarithm for every movie and start color grading straight without using Color Management making all their effort to waste) This is IMO the biggest killer that makes a lot of footage non-cinematic (or not-Red not-Arri like footage if you prefer). Chances are if you buy / rent a red or Arri, you don't use it for snapchat and have knowledge of the beast while if you do for the GH5, there's no guarantee the majority doesn't buy this product to shoot pictures of their dogs 3) Framing which orientates the eye to make things pop up and others to disappear. 4) Lighting, sounds about right since light deposit and shades create contrast, underline some parts of the frame.

    Then yes, there are things that comes to the realm of taste. I still love the texture / color my GH2 produce anytime compared to the GH4/GH5/GH5s. It's certainely not natural but it's to my taste (to be fair if you take a look at it, nature sucks most of the time. It's grey, averagely saturated and chances are in your city the lights are cheap not of quality).

    It's easy to find bad examples:

    Just test a camera to see if it fits your needs, don't judge over the internet.

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  • Hope Panasonic does a firmware update to fix their timecode implementation.

  • @bwhitz the funny thing is if you put 25p on 24p, or you move to any kind of timeline with fewer frames, you get that jump. But if you put 24p on a 25p timeline it isn't so bad. Easy enough to fix, anyway.

  • @DrDave Yep, I was just gonna say that was probably it...

  • @bwhitz @Nino_Ilacqua Those jumps are because the person making the film did not know the difference between 24p and 25p. They simply put it on the wrong timeline and then didn't notice the jumps from the missing frames. It's amazing how often you see stuff like that.

  • @ bwhitz

    At 0:35 for example, the red bus on the bridge going left, or the woman at 0:46 walking to right. The movement stops for a tiny fraction of second then there is a very little jump forward.

  • @Nino_Ilacqua

    It's true, but why it jumps like that? Movements are horrible.

    Which part? Looked like most of it was on a tripod. Maybe the end parts were just handheld?

  • @bwhitz

    " Speaking of the Varicam... let's use it as a reference for amazing detail! Look how deep and clean that image resolves... damn! It's looks like photoraw-mode from a DSLR... "

    It's true, but why it jumps like that? Movements are horrible. Can you please explain me why? And how to avoid it?

  • @kin869

    Here's some wide outdoor shots from the GH5s that also show a lot of detail:

    Ah yea! That one does look allot better! There may be hope yet! Definitely going to have to rent a GH5s sometime this month and try it out...

  • This is a decent video. If you are not filming above 25,000 ISO the A7R III is a nice balance of color and detail. The weird greenish tint of the Panasonics is a bit off putting, but the 5s is way better than the 5 in that regard.

  • Some side by side comparison between the GH5 and the GH5s at various ISOs:

    Besides the slow motion tests, it seems like the GH5s resolve about the same amount of detail as the GH5.

    Here's some wide outdoor shots from the GH5s that also show a lot of detail:

  • @endotoxic

    I think the void is entering the discussion. Detail artefacts are part of the digital process. I understand the frustration based on some expectations maybe some specs didn't live to the word, but we have now a very capable camera that has 4k In a 4/3 amazing lowlight sensor. who would imagine this could be achieved at those sensitivities.

    That's true. I agree with most of your whole post. But, on the other hand... there are cheap cameras that don't seem to have digital-artifacting. The Blackmagics for one, they all seem to render very nice, filmic, detail. Sure, the 2.5k are kind of old now, and a bit grainy... but, damn, I can't say they look digital. Still a very organic image free of artifact-ed details (maybe not the Pocket cam). I've even had 4k Blackmagic footage that looked better than the Alexa under the right lighting (since Alexa wasn't actually 4k)... so it can be done.

    But, hey, like I've been saying... I could still be wrong. I'm just calling things as I see them currently. We haven't seen a whole ton of GH5s footage yet... there are allot of variables from shooting to uploading. So I'm gonna keep my eye on it! Cause it is a really amazing camera still with great features. Both the GH5 and GH5s are. I just really wanted that smooth, cinema-detailed look. It's what I really like for my projects. Not everyone needs to share my preference though.

    @DrDave

    the "horse" video on my monitor--the green looks like astroturf. Maybe that's the look they wanted but I wouldn't have pushed it that far (using the Spider Pro for calibration).

    Yea, the colors aren't great. I was just using that as an example of pretty good-looking detail. Not sharp... but highly detailed and smooth.

    but to be real and honest I want a varicam Lt.

    Yes! The Varicams are one of my favorite cameras right now as well. Very awesome footage from those. Speaking of the Varicam... let's use it as a reference for amazing detail! Look how deep and clean that image resolves... damn! It's looks like photoraw-mode from a DSLR...

  • I'll probably be getting the a6700. Can't wait to see the a6700. Or the NX2. Please, please. But if I had to choose between the GH5 and the GH5s I would go for the GH5. It's a great camera. If they improve the 5s, which I'm sure they can, it would be really great to have the multi aspect sensor.
    @endotoxic I for sure have had several videos ruined by stair stepping and moiré. It isn't a question of art for me; I just don't want it. It didn't like the pulsing, clumping grain in the GH1, either. Every cam from Panasonic has gotten just a bit better in resolution, color and moiré, and the GH5 is now the best one all of those. I wouldn't buy a camera just for LL, but if I needed one, I would certainly consider the 5s because I have so much glass already. If it was really really dark, I probably would go with the Sony.

    @kellar42 my ax100 is too sharp. See, I do complain if it is too sharp :) But the ax700 is very nice.

    @bwhitz the "horse" video on my monitor--the green looks like astroturf. Maybe that's the look they wanted but I wouldn't have pushed it that far (using the Spider Pro for calibration).

    The 5s is the first attempt at low light. Imagine that it is the GH1, and down the line there will be a GH 7s (7s--hmmm....) from Panasonic with incremental upgrades that is even better. I hope they continue it.

  • @Bwhitz and @allthepeoplefromthisthread

    I think the void is entering the discussion. Detail artefacts are part of the digital process. I understand the frustration based on some expectations maybe some specs didn't live to the word, but we have now a very capable camera that has 4k In a 4/3 amazing lowlight sensor. who would imagine this could be achieved at those sensitivities.

    In a way I'm very glad that we have the opportunity to live use and watch the evolution of such grate machines. The GH series has gone very far and it is in a inacurate state of limbo, since is very pro capable but still consumer oriented. That makes professional confused, since they have prolike specs at low prices but lack of real control. Not that much far from a red camera in fact. We only lack raw material from gh5.

    About the halos and artifacts the mud or the alliasing, they are part of the character of the camera and to that extend As a professional I'm able to overcome its limitations creatively. It's just a tool. And there are lots of them around.

    In general I like what gh5 series offer. Has come a long way to what it is now.

    The ideal situations would be buy both as panamarketing thought from the begining. Do you really think they don't have the knowledge to make the s line better? In fact only a firmware update could change all its behaviour completely.

    Don't brag about its features, and implementation, see the way to overcome them in the best possible way

    I'm in a current state of doubt. I have 30k+ to invest in editing machine and gear. 10 or such in amd thread ripper or Epyc workstation 8k ready and the rest on smart buy equipment. C200 ,eva1 ,ursaminipro, 2xgh5 , c300mk2, but to be real and honest I want a varicam Lt. Even second used, That is my dream more than an alexa mini or any camera at the moment. It feels right.

    that image from gh5 it is not designed to be on set with its bigger brothers, that's a marketing strategy and lies, that makes you think GH series share parts with varicam series, like color and fake dual.gain sensor, its utter lies. Approaching consumers with professionals work.

    Gh5s and gh5 is better that any camera at that price point on video. That's it, no more apples to oranges. Untill Sony comes with a Better aproach or the nx2 or whatever makes it 10 bit 422 at 400mbit 60p DCI, GH series is better from codec implementation to features.

    6k anamorphic !! Come on bro!! For 2k!!!!???

    Cheers

  • I guess I'm not a good pixel-peeper. To me the GH5S looks great

  • Yea, I'd have to say neither looks good in that comparison. GH5s is crunchy again... looks like Canon 7D detail. And the A7SII looks muddy.

  • @Ironfilm OK I will try it! Drilling now!

    Looking at the truly weird log clip comparing the a7s ii with the GH5s I think we unfortunately have to ask the question, why?
    Why is the sky blue on the right and not on the left?
    Why is the Sony not graded properly?
    Why are the rocks orange on the left and not on the right?
    Since it's outdoors, in decent light, why wasn't the clip on the left made using the R series or the a6500?
    Why isn't the GH5 used, as well, to show precise difference between the two cameras in a typical, outdoor situation?
    And we know that the 6500 is going to outresolve the GH5s, so why isn't it there? Weird.
    Why were the clips filmed at two different times, with different cloud coverage?
    Why is the the building overexposed. thus affecting the color of the entire clip?

    I mean, seriously. Anytime you have a non blue sky video of a blue sky, all it shows is that you don't know what you are doing.