Learn by watching

jleo

Documentary on cinematographer Jack Cardiff who shot many classic Powell Pressburger movies like Black Narcissus, Red Shoes, Stairway to Heaven and John Huston's African Queen:

Full Film, low resolution 240p

babypanda

See, I LIKED broken flowers. well, sort of. the plot got weird, but the concept was interesting. going back to all the girls whose hearts you broke. yeah, you gotta admire jarmusch for making films outside the box. true. so yeah, he's worth a watch for that reason alone. as you say, no one's perfect.

kurth

yeah....this was so painful I watched it twice on the same day. Maybe it was because I loved tilda gliding thru the casbah....or just plain love tangier , which in the 60's, along with katmandu were the two coolest cities on the planet !

...but there's a certain truth to jarmusch's learning curve ...no one's perfect. For example I didn't appreciate night on earth or broken flowers .....but you've got to admire the fact...he does what he wants, not what the money demands. I recently read only 2% of indie films even make their investment back. Why would anyone look at making films as a career choice anyway ?

But @babypanda , I'd clockworkorange the worst jarmusch over and over for infinity...rather than watch that shxt trailer one more time !

...and @jleo....absolute thumbs up to rod ! We couldn't have made it thru the cuban missle crisis or jfk's ass....without TZ ! It was the cuttingfuxing edge !

...and @maxr....as for van zant....drugstore cowboy is his best film imho.

....and @suresure123....all of your list are good films....3 are great films

babypanda

and from Jarmusch to that crap posted above

So everything Jarmusch does is great? Coffee and Cigarettes was painful to watch. Some of these directors get too full of themselves and they think because they have a cult following they can film paint drying and their disciples will still think it's art. And often, they're right.

suresure123

As this thread is now becoming a name dropping exercise can someone please post some truly recognised great movies not cult movies from the 70's...

I'll help you all out and just post this.

http://www.bbc.com/culture/story/20150720-the-100-greatest-american-films

My personal list off the top of my head in no particular order and prone to change regularly might be:

2001
Fight Club
Se7en
The Godfather
Inception
Dark Knight Returns
Goodfellas
American History X
The Shining
Cinema Paradiso

I could go till 100 no problem but these won't disappoint anyone who loves Cinema. And yes they are not exactly unpredictable but I don't feel the need to look cultured and pretentious right now. These movies ARE ART.

jleo

Yes, Rod Serling was one of the great writer/producers. See also his feature film work, as well as Twilight Zone, Seven Days in May, Planet of the Apes, :

Documentary : Rod Serling: Submitted for your approval shown on PBS:

brianl

Go with Rod. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2egs2j_science-fiction-treasures-the-howling-man-1960-twighlight-zone-rod-serling_shortfilms

maxr

@kurth just remembered 1 more golden oz 4 you, Housebound (bloody com) and kiwi What We Do in the Shadows, absolutely brilliant and funny. Ok of those you posted I know none, just po-po-Potente of course, je je, my watchlist is getting fat =) like your kat. Wim Wenders...uhhmmm... to me his films are interesting till the 90's, being his early ones his very best: Alice in den Städten, Kings of the Road, Der Stand der Dinge, Paris, Texas and Wings of Desire... then just the docs.

Herzog is a different beast with tremendous momentum, he has made (and how he did it?!!) some truly milestones of cinema; his early career is what I like the best (with Bruno S. - Hauser/Stroszek), of course the tyrants' trilogy and Kinski (Cobra Verde being much weeker). Doc wise he... went further of the standards and mixed nice chilli-woopi spices. Nevertheless he has gotten lazy, maybe comfortable... from his Cave of Forgotten Dreams you could still see the master shinning under a tone of... know how this works (model) repetitive lazy shit. When I first saw Fitzcarraldo in the cinema I was a kid and I was blown out of my mind... for weeks, Popol Vuh and the fucking boat on my brain forever!!!
Aguirre's every bit as good

and Bruno S as Kaspar, soo good

@jleo Wow a novice director surrounded with personalities, I’ld have shit myself to the bone right at breakfast… cannot imagine Huston (which films I really like: The Maltese Falcon, Key Largo, The African Queen - Bogard’s epoque, Moulin Rouge - José Ferrer and Zsa Zsa Gabor, Moby Dick - Peck, Heaven Knows, Mr. Allison - Kerr and Mitchun, The Misfits - Gable, Monroe, Clift, The Night of the Iguana - Burton and most beautiful animal, Reflections in a Golden Eye - Taylor and Brando, Fat City - here with Bridges and Mr. Keach _ I think was @matt_gh2 who liked this one, The Man Who Would Be King - Connery/Caine and fantastish Prizzi's Honor - with Nicholson, Turner and his own daughter Angela /// Neither Asphalt Jungle or his last based in Joyce’s The Dead I have watched) smoking a cigar next to (legend) Mifune… and Eli Wallach (Misfits, The Magnificent Seven and Leone’s The Good, the Bad and the Ugly, my fav western) just wow I have to see this Winter Kills.
Seems like William Richert didn’t do so much after that; the most daring thing being a role on Van Sant’s My Own Private Idaho, which I liked it very much, best of Van Sant with Elephant (Milk and Good Will Hunting also good but not so “daring”). Lawrence of Arabia reminded me of Lean’s beautiful Ryan's Daughter that won 2 oscars, one of which the third for cinematographer Freddie Young (Lawrence of Arabia, Doctor Zhivago). David Lean’s 4 consecutive films from Kwai to Ryan’s Daughter won an oscar for cinematography, so I can imagine the desire to work with him in the DP comunity, ja ja ja. Arabia also brought to mind last film I saw with Peter O'Toole, Roger Michell’s Venus and where, despite some holes one can watch the magic of an old but mighty charming O’Toole and Jodie Whittaker (Good Vibrations) in her first feature.
BTW thanks for The five Palms looks promising =)

There's too much good stuff to see...

jleo

First time director William Richert directed the cult classic Winter Kills ( based on Manchurian Candidate author Richard Condon's novel. In interviews, he says he hired veteran cast and crew so he could learn from them. Richert assembled a star-studded cast including Jeff Bridges, John Huston, Eli Wallach, Richard Boone, Toshiro Mifune and hired cinematographer Vilmos Zsigmond ( Close Encounters of The Third Kind) , production designer Robert Boyle ( who worked on many Alfred Hitchcock thrillers, composer Maurice Jarre ( Lawrence Arabia). Quite a lineup for a indie film/novice director with no studio backing !

Trailer:

full film streaming ( downloadable as mp4 file )

http://www.imovies.ge/movies/25353

Making of Winter Kills (spoilers!) from the 2 DVD Set

The burning palm tree in Miracle Mile reminds me of another apocalyptic Los Angeles based movie, the ABC mini-series Wild Palms, by Bruce Wagner and Oliver Stone, directed by Kathryn Bigelow ( Hurt Locker ), Keith Gordon, Peter Hewitt and Phil Joanou.

Wild Palms is a five-hour mini-series... The sci-fi drama, announced as an "event series", deals with the dangers of politically motivated abuse of mass media technology, virtual realities in particular.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Palms

Trailer:

Full Episodes 1-6

kurth

@maxr...thanks amigo. Everytime you post I got kat running overtime ! Everything herzog has made is good....some are great....a few are beyond belief. I'll have to give green ants another shot. Saw it at the theater when it was released ...after seeing aguirre, kaspar, and fitz, so I was a little disappointed, in hindsight. And yeah to welles...touch of evil awesomeness. Course I live south of the line so anything 'bout mex I love. And how much I've yet to learn. Shat...I didn't even know Jarmusch made a film before stranger. Course that brings it around to Wenders being his filmstock benefactor and Jarmusch working on

.......so offering something more to the god of cinema....

maxr

@kurth, check out The Little Death, ozzy too and blasting funny semi-unconfortable relation-shit.
Lets add to our list the uncontornables Walkabout, Where the Green Ants Dream and The Tracker
Say hello to the pigeon 4 me -)

@matthere Korine's last, Spring Breakers has a colour "squeme" (and grade) that alone's worth the watch... and I cannot stand the flatulence of James Franco ,-)

@GeoffreyKenner haven't seen Kar Wai Ashes, neither Days of Being Wild which it is highly praised, but loved Chunking Express {or sweat your love out :P} and specially Fallen Angels, 'cause of the energy and marvelous Leung and Kaneshiro. In the Mood for Love it's to me eyes a compendium of faddish, warm, slow passionate burning motherfucking good cinema, OST helps.

@MirrorMan Lang context, absolutely!!! One thing I find interesting of watching a classic is to see if stands the passing of time... I do ask myself "can I watch this and enjoy it and be surprised by it or {for whatever reason} I've got to make an anthropological document out of it"; to my surprise (I'm crazy about Welles work) the other day we projected a Wells' flick and... well didn't quite make it, same with a bunch of noir flicks... who knows maybe some stereotypes have been just abused to death, anyway this is very subjective evaluation and wasn't one of the "main" Welles' films. Ritaaaa!!!! Cheers mate =)

@jleo good ones brother, keep the patched badass granpas coming {don't FORget forD}. I'll be surely checking them out :P

With Steve De Jarnatt's Cherry 2000 I have another one of those affectionate relationships. Miracle Mille was his second long feature. I really wish this guy never went to burry himself on tv and kept doing flicks... I wonder...
Anyway nuclear fear needs no condoms; so romantic and dated that is good again, just the colours and hair style, the charcters and the fact that they allowed itself to be borderline funny while tragedy unfolds... cataclismic blast coming from hollywood!! Loved all the scenarios and locations and the cherish for smaller details (like the cop's plate or the counter-countdown of elevator's buttons), sometimes it's like I'm watching a completely different movie. Great intro titles with some kind of basic animation and Tangerine Dream!!! The 80's at its best, a classic!!
BTW to be able to see an actress with crooked teeth (which I actually find sexy, same with gaps) is... so good, ja ja ja

click here for Huge grabsheet

ANd cherry on top of the pie, gorgeous artwork for poster

kurth

@suresure123....you're deluded...this thread went to taste shxt heaven! Have you noticed....that's what's happened to every arena of cultural expression we left to the mediocres of the world. In 50 years we went from John F Kennedy to Barack Obama....from the Beatles to Suge Knight....from the Monkeys to Justin Beiber, and from Jarmusch to that crap posted above. Having escaped 30 years ago from that cultural nightmare we call amerika, I think they're putting something in your food supply !!

suresure123

@Mirrorman I didn't suggest any specific Korean movies cause I wasn't trying to, in fact I was trying to not lead people to the obvious ones that have broken in the West like Oldboy and Chaser etc. I said people should look at Korean movies (generally) cause of the high standard on many levels and different dynamic in terms of story telling.

Here let me guide your little shaky hands.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=korean+movies

Oh and if you still think I didn't contribute I'll say it again, this thread was started in 2012 and had about 5 posts of obscure unwatchable docs and art installations. The offenders feel all sore cause I suggested we post more relevant work......but the fact is this thread has some decent content now since I posted so I will give myself a light pack on the back if you don't mind. You're welcome...

suresure123

@BabyPanda. I agree. I don't dismiss the criterion collection though as many great movies are part of it. The thing is many of the movies that get thrown around as ground break really were but maybe in some minor area that is commonly understood these days. Like some movies will be groundbreaking cause they used a tracking shot or the dialogue wasn't prerecorded or maybe the dialogue was more naturalist or maybe it was a first of a genre e.g. Noir or maybe it had the first dolly shot etc...

So you can go hunt those movies out but actually many of the techniques are now standard in movies today. You're right the best thing to do it analyse all kinds of movies particularly ones you love.

Short films are the best way got filmmakers to get a break for their work I think. Better to use the budget you got and skills in a 5 minute short than try to make the next El Mariachi. I think there are good indie movies around but I think indie has become a stupid genre of cliques, I would argue to see smaller movies i.e. under a million dollars you need to look at foreign movies. I would be interested in interesting indie movies though, just not Frances Friken Ha!

Recognise this? hahaha

babypanda

I and truthfully everyone else... have posted films you would see, if for example , you were studying cinematography at ucla.

Maybe those programs are outdated, with old professors who are stuck in their ways. I once got into "Criterion Collection Masters of Cinema" DVDs. Many were great, but many of them I thought were crap. Quite frankly, I don't want to be told what to watch by pompous snobby old men on some obscure committees. Who decides what a masterpiece is and isn't? I just watched The Three Stooges. It got shit reviews, but it makes me laugh my ass off, even after several viewings, so I consider it a masterpiece.

Another point is that I'm surprised there is so little mention of indie films on this forum. How are indie films ever supposed to gain in popularity? If other indie filmmakers are remotely interested in them, are the masses supposed to be interested? Maybe you should start learning to appreciate other indie films that are not "masters of cinema", or no one will appreciate your film. Also, these are your direct competitors, not Hollywood, because these are films that are being made with the same low budgets and equipment you have access to. So you can learn what's possible with your dinky little DSLR.

Another point is short films. Why so little interest in short films? These are more feasible to make on low budgets than full-length feature films and also easier to break down and analyze. I would recommend www.shortoftheweek.com if I was teaching filmmaking.

And when learning about films, it might be more practical to work backwards. Decide what kind of film you'd like to make. Horror? Ok, then watch as many horror films as you can, including the bad ones. Watching many films of the same genre side by side will allow you to see what separates the good ones from the bad ones, which techniques are over-used, etc...

kurth

@suresure123

You might want to call me an asshole, go ahead I'm a big boy.... So go ahead attack me >but I made this thread come alive, I would prefer the description I was a black hat thinker >that actually helped the bigger picture.

haha...really ...?...and who was in your opinion "the offending posters " ? @maxr , I and truthfully everyone else... have posted films you would see, if for example , you were studying cinematography at ucla. You haven't posted anything but an inflated opinion of yourself .

MirrorMan

@suresure123 no need to pat your own back. You still haven't contributed and meaningful information. Can you be more specific about which Korean directors/films you are referring to? It would be nice to know since this is what this thread is about. Otherwise I'll go back to posting "unwatchable" films.

suresure123

As a separate post I highly recommend people check out the last decade or so of Korean movies. Maybe they have not been ground breaking themselves but some of the best filmaking I have seen especially in terms of cinematography and intriguing storyline have been coming out of South Korea. Japanese used to but they have really gone downhill and much of Chinas output is huge government sponsored epics, not all but the majority.

PS There is more to Korean movies than Oldboy and The Host.

suresure123

@Everyone. You might want to call me an asshole, go ahead I'm a big boy BUT before I suggested that some of the posts were too art house and not actually cinema (come on one was an hour long clip of a rock) The offending posters have NOW posted actually great influential movies from various times that have been groundbreaking in some way and we can actually learn something from so have others. So go ahead attack me but I made this thread come alive, I would prefer the description I was a black hat thinker that actually helped the bigger picture. Threads are so full of positive regard no one ever says anything more than Oh Great!

So no need to thank me......but you're welcome. :)

jleo

William Friedkin interviews Fritz Lang

Fritz Lang: The Nature of the Beast, a Biography, Patrick McGilligan

“The propaganda minister (Goebbels) told the director (Lang) that the Fuhrer was one of his most avid fans. The Fuhrer had ‘loved’ Metropolis, which he had seen at a low point in his career, and of course Die Nibelungen, too whose majesty had apparently caused the Nazi leader to break down and weep. Lang quoted Goebbels quoting Hitler: ‘Here is a man who will give us great Nazi films.’ Hitler, in short, wanted Lang to serve as the head of a new agency supervising motion picture production in the Third Reich. He would become the Nazi’s Fuhrer of film” (McGilligan, 175).

( Lang, who was anti-Nazi fled to the U.S.)

At 6:10 you can see how Lang's staging influenced Triumph of Will. Busby Berkley geometric choreography was another influence!

==========

Lang in his Indiana Jones period:

full film w subs

https://archive.org/details/TheTigerOfEschnapur1959RoenSubbed

MirrorMan

Thanks @jleo. @matt_gh2 to find films I just go down rabbit holes sometimes. I was on a big Italian and Japanese exploitation kick for a while.

Now that we've touched on American, Japanese and a bit of Russian cinema history, I think we shouldn't forget a few german additions. Fritz Lang is definitely responsible for a number of contributions to cinematic language, particularly with 'Metropolis' and 'M'. While these may look slow and dated today the whole genre of Science Fiction would not be what it is today without Metropolis... and where would modern crime thrillers be without M.

.

babypanda

This is a film called Amblin by none other than Spielberg. Out of curiosity, how many people here have heard of this film or actually seen it? If I'm not mistaken, if was Spielberg's very first film that he did while he was in film school and it was the film that got him noticed by Hollywood (but please correct me if I'm wrong).

I wanted to include this film here because it reinforces the point that I made earlier. You can probably learn a lot by watching any of Spielberg's films, but this one is special because it was his first film so you can get a sense of how he progressed as a filmmaker and also because it can be made with an iphone.

In fact, one of the comments below the video on Youtube echoes my sentiments perfectly:

Haters can hate but this helped Spielberg get his career started, this film is better than most short films I have seen and after seeing it I can honestly say Thanks Steven. I was scared to do anything with film because I grew up watching Jurassic Park, Jaws, Indiana Jones almost every Spielberg movie there is, and I kept telling myself I would never be as good as him. Watching this made me realize we are not all perfect and we all got to start somewhere. Thanks again Steven!

jleo

( these are the full movie in widescreen, available online )

Sex and Fury, ( download and use subtitles)

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x21wz6x_sex-and-fury_shortfilms

http://www.opensubtitles.org/en/subtitleserve/sub/3107552

(change file name to match file)

Goodbye Uncle Tom

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodbye_Uncle_Tom

GeoffreyKenner

I've been influenced a lot by Wong Kar Wai. I dig a lot its way to formalize a frame with strong grain, variable shutter speed and deep color grading / use of filter. It's kind of unconventional and in disrespect with what I hear around this forum (less noise, 180 shutter speed, skin tone).

My personal favorite would probably be Ashes of Time Redux. I've learned so much in that movie alone from acting, image to editing. It took me a couple of screening to understand how the grain was actually moving like it was flowing with the wind on screen. It was a great learning curve experience to watch his entire filmography.

I also do love Zhang Yimou's Hero. It made me think a lot about the use of Color.

Thank you for making me discover a lot of new name. I also have two names I follow frequently in this kind of "New Breath" of experimental Cinema: Alexandre Galmard and Isiah Medina.

matthere

@babypanda thanks for the Spike Jonze short, enjoyed that :)

I think the idea of making "something/anything.." with the equipment available is something a lot of people shy away from, for a variety of reasons. But with the access we have to youtube/vimeo etc, experimental film should be more and more accessible, and to be fair there is some interesting stuff out there, maybe enough for another thread?

I have also found Harmony Korine's filmography interesting; Julien Donkey Boy is one I would recommend for a gritty look at schizophrenia, with an outstanding performance from Ewen Bremner as Julien (I didn't realise it was Bremner till the credits the first time I watched it). Werner Herzog also plays the father in an interesting role.

Gummo is also quite an ordeal to watch, what with cat assassins (sorry VK ;) and often uncomfortable scenes that sometimes feel intrusive, but ultimately I got a lot from it, and it's one that stays with me, in a good way :)

An early short from Korine:

And whilst Korine often shines a light on the less beautiful aspects of society, some of which I would often turn way from, he has (for me) a knack for interesting insights in the most strange of places.

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