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Sony a6000 topic
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  • Look like a bestial improvement in video. But I have a question, as owner of a 5N I know the cameras from Sony suffer of overheat when recording video, have improved this or continues overheating?

  • finally broke down and ordered a GH4 to go along with my new A6000. I think I will use the A6000 more for photos and the GH4 for video.

  • No problems will do so in the week when I get a bit more free time. Uncompressed 10bit would be a bit huge so will up some HQ (422) or avid DNxHD

  • @Mimirsan I am interested in seeing some external footage. I would especially like to see how the transitions from light to shadows look and generally underexposed footage (I find that to always look worst in H264 footage).

  • @Mimirsan please do upload external/original footage.

  • A6000 with HDMI. I recently bought a cheap Hyperdeck shuttle and tried it out on the A6000. At first I thought it was going to be a problem as the camera shuts off the screen/evf when connecting HDMI but then discovered that the camera switches to playback mode when connected. So switch back to camera and good to go. Its a pain and not sure why the a6000 does this.

    HDMI is clean. Looks to me that (like the VG20) is that there is a bit more detail with a less processed look. Its still processed though as you still can get the facechaser box pop up...so switch facechaser off!

    Dont expect miracles but at least its an improvement on the in cam codec (which ive found to be a little muddy on high detail shooting.

    If anyone wants me to I can try upload some external footage/original footage I can do.

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    Sony has a real hit with the Alpha 6000. It offers a good, advanced user interface (with previous flaws now fixed), excellent versatility, very good overall performance, highly competitive autofocus for both stationary and moving subjects, excellent video capabilities and great images.

    http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a6000/sony-a6000-shooters-report-part-iii.htm

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  • @apefos,

    I hoped that they helped you and other members trying to decide on getting the A6000 to make a somewhat informed decision. I think the A6000 is very good for the 1080P camera that it is. It won't outperform the Gh4 with its 4K capturing capabilities and High Bit rate 1080p. It won't also outperform the A7S with it Slog-2, supposed 15.3 stops dynamic range, XAVC 50mbps codec and full frame sensor. However, for now, its all the camera that I need.

  • I got the other profiles in the new download link. Sony did a great job creating these profiles, just amazing. all profiles are great, just a matter of taste and situation. makes me want to buy the a6000 and dream about the a7s...

    i think the usable isos for the a7s will be 12800 for a safe noise and 25600 for a limit in denoise quality. i do not expect quality in more than this. the pixel density comparison from a6000 to a7s is the a7s pixels size are 4.7 times larger, so, if the 3200 iso in a6000 is the maximum with good quality denoise, 3200 x 4.7 will give us a great quality in iso 16000 maximum in a7s. and if 6400 is the limit for safe denoise in a6000, 6400 x 4.7 will give us 32000 iso as safe limit for denoise in a7s. i do not expect more than this. also i do not expect more than 11 or 12 fstops dr even with slog2, I think a6000 with a good focal reducer is the way to go for the low budget people. the low light performance will be at a maximum 2 fstops difference and dynamic range will be the same. a6000 is more than good enough.

    thanks for all your tests @bleach551

  • @apefos,

    The first link I posted was for,I think, only 15 clips because I forgot to highlight all of the clips in the folder that they were in. The new link above is for all 26 clips.

    I hadn't used any thing but the "Neutral" "Light" and "Potrait". I always try "Neutral" ,Which seems to be in every camera, and "Portrait", which was available in the D7000, D7100 and I believe in the 7D and GH1 I owned.

    "Neutral", in the A6000, looked good when I first started using the camera. However, after using it for a while, I found it somewhat hard to get the rich vibrant, but not overly saturated, colors that I liked. I also thought the "Neutral" crushed the blacks a little much and that the overall image wasn't dynamic enough.

    "Light" I tried and as you mentioned it seems to increase the highlights and i believed the mid-tones as well. This was good with scenes that had a low amount of contrast but bad in already contrasty scenes.

    "Night", as you mentioned, is good for night scenes. Scenes where you need the shadows lifted but the highlights controlled to possibly control the "blooming" of light sources at night.

    "Standard" I like for its color in the D7000 and D7100. However, I always thought it crushed the blacks too much so I never used it. I haven't spent much time with this profile in the A6000, but since you seem to think so much of it I will give it a hard look.

    "Portrait" is the picture profile I am liking now because I think it gives one of the best dynamic ranges. I like the colors and I like the separation in the highlights and shadows, as well as the amount of detail in the shadows. I also like its color accuracy when used with "Auto" white balance in sunny day scenes. The only problem that I have found with the "Portrait" profile is that it seems to "over saturate" greens on low contrast days (cloudy or raining days) and it seems to push greens more toward blue.

    I still believe that it is best to get as close in-camera to the final look you want than to shot very flat and hope that you can get the final look you want in post. Some guys can do a marvelous job in post other guys just turn it into shit. Some might say I am disciplined for knowing what I what ahead of time, others might say I just a lazy fuck. I think I am both. I try to do as little in post as I possibly can.

    I think the A6000 does very well in lowlight, when used with The DRO function. However, I still don't think it will be any where near the same class as the Alpha 7S but only time will tell.

  • @bleach551 Thanks for uploading again. I saw in the wetransfer that they keep the files for just one week in the free account.

    Sony did a great job in the A6000 profiles/styles...

    The sunset gives a beautiful gold cast to the image, similar to a Rosco Straw gel, it makes me remember the apefoscope gold coated flares... would be a great combo. It seems the A6000 sunset is less strong in the color cast than the 5n and it makes the image more useful for more situations. I liked it a lot.

    The vivid is similar contrast compared to sunset, but no straw cast, I like it also. The strong contrast without crush the blacks makes the image pop...

    I did not like the portrait so much, so much flat for my taste.

    I think the standart will be the workhorse for situations when dynamic range is the main goal, shadows are more lift and highlights are more preserved than vivid, but not so flat compared to portrait, good balance for dynamic range situations.

    The neutral lifts the shadows a little compared to standard, but things start to get flat, maybe useful for shadow/highlight situation. for the flower scene I prefer the standard than neutral. Also the neutral lower the color so much...

    The night is very interesting profile. it lift the shadows gamma and lower the highlight gamma, whitout flatten the image, very useful for dark streets with lamps and car lights

    The light style will be useful for shadows and dark scenes, it lifts everything without flatten, this is great, but no good if there is highlights in the scene.

    The sepia is a special effect...

    you uploaded 8 profiles/styles... and there are 13 in total, maybe the upload zip file is missing the following profiles: Clear, Autum, Deep, Landscape and B&W... oh... now I see, you updated the zip... downloading again...

    You wrote funny text about image grading in post. I think the same, the codec was not made for this and not all people have skill to do it, and even with lots of talent it is a hard work to do... most times you need to increase contrast just in shadows or just in highlights and creating a custom curve to do it is complex task. I think people will be exited about the SLog2 in the A7s and we will see lots of videos showing slog2 graded with cliped highlights and crushed shadows due to wrong grading in post. And I think the standard or neutral with DRO5 and lowering highlights in post from 110 IRE to 100 IRE will deliver the same dynamic range compared to SLog2 without the need of post grading... I think that more than 12 fstops dynamic range with in camera grading or post grading will be something for future technology, new sensors to come or HDR video merging two streams...

    The "in camera grading" concept we are talking about is what I used to develop the Cook Picture Styles for Canon DSLR. Interest thing is the sony nex does this with the combination of Profiles, DRO and the Super White, and no need to create custom profiles.

  • @apefos,

    Here is the link again:

    http://we.tl/CcSOAanVyN

    I think wetransfer only keeps files for a limited time so I uploaded the files again.

    I have always believed that it was better to get as close in-camera to the final look that you wanted instead of shooting a "flat" Milky image. Then you have process a codec that was never meant to be heavily post processed to begin with.

    You would have increase saturation more than normal, due to using the lowest in-camera saturation settings. Next, you have to increase contrast more than normal, due to using the lowest in-camera contrast settings. Further, you have to increase sharpness more than normal, due to using the lowest in-camera sharpness settings because to most, in theory, all in-camera sharpening is "Bad".

    Now this all hinges of the belief that everyone has the same level of post-processing skills, especially In the area of sharpening. There are guys who simply use a "sharpening" effect with levels 1-5 or 0-100. There are guys who use "Unsharp Mask" With settings for "Amount", "Radius" and "Threshold". Then you have the guys who use multiple adjustment layers, masking, with some exotic 10 or 15 stage sharpening technique that uses program functions most have never heard of let alone ever used. To these group of guys my thing is, If you have to go through all this to get the sharpness you desire from your camera, the camera that you are using might not be the camera for you to begin with. Better lenses may also be the answer.

    Judge for yourself what you believe can best be done in-camera and what can best be done in post.

  • @bleach551 in your last post when you say: ("So if I can get the in-camera contrast I want with the dynamic range I want with little to no increase in noise, why not do it.") It is interesting to see that you is following the same way I am, to get the image with best grading from the camera instead of grading in computer.

    I missed your 13 picture profiles test. The download link is broken. The 5n does not have all these styles so I am curious to see... A small standard definition version would be enough, just to see the dynamic range and color differences among the 13 picture profiles...

  • @Apefos,

    I am still new to Sony products and knowing that I can potentially recover info. out of clipped whites from the A6000 is very useful info. Thanks

  • Maybe the Sony users already know this, but I will share because it can be useful information:

    In the 5n videos I found that the video signal goes up to 110 IRE in the waveform monitor. The TV and Monitor screens just show video up to 100 IRE. If you use a filter/effect in timeline to low down the 110 IRE from the Sony cameras to 100 IRE, there will be lots of image details and textures hidden in the cliped whites. It looks like 1 fstop gain in the dynamic range.

    I think this is called Sony "super white"

  • @EYESOUL,

    No problem man.

  • @bleach551 understood, again thanks for the insight.

  • @EYESOUL,

    Yes, Like @APEFOS , I found leaving the contrast at "0" and adjusting the DRO as better at least in "day" image capture.

    When I used the D7000 and D7100, I always used the Neutral and "-3" contrast settings. This was great for a wider flatter look, however it always seemed to add more noise in the blacks on the D7000. It added noise along with FPN(Fixed Pattern Noise) on my D7100. I really didn't have a choice because the D7000 and D7100 had no dynamic range optimizer function to help them out. I thought I found the answer in being able to create a better dynamic range custom Picture Profile with the included program from Nikon, but I ended up making things worse.

    I did tests at night with the DRO function off with only the contrast at "-3" to give me a wider dynamic range. The -3 contrast image looked great in the area of Dynamic range , but it looked "too" flat when I got it into my NLE and it seem to expose more noise than I had seen with "0" contrast. When I adjusted the the contrast in post, because I thought it looked too flat, I ended up loosing the shadow info I tried to preserve.

    With a "0" contrast in the A6000 I solved two problems. First, with the "0" contrast I got the black levels I wanted in-camera without the need to crush the blacks in post. Second, because of the black levels that I already captured in-camera I could hide the noise more. Also, with the different DRO level settings, I got the wider dynamic range I was looking for without having to adjust the "master" curve in my NLE color corrector.

    I put two clips into Final Cut Pro 7. The first had settings of -3 contrast, -1 saturation(don't want to loose too much color info) and -2 sharpness, DRO (off). The other clip had settings of 0-contrast, 0-saturation and -2 sharpness, DRO 5. I put the first clip in the "Viewer" window and the other DRO enabled clip in the "Canvas" window.

    I set both windows to show the images first at %100 and next at %200. I moved the clips around to display the same shadow area. I looked at the shadows area in both clips at both %100 and %200 and I couldn't see any difference in the clip with settings of 0-contrast, 0-saturation and -2 sharpness, DRO 5 and the clip with settings of -3 contrast, -1 saturation, -2 sharpness and DRO (off) in the area of noise. So if I can get the in-camera contrast I want with the dynamic range I want with little to no increase in noise, why not do it.

    Again, my results me differ from others so you might want to experiment with different Contrast settings in conjunction with DRO level settings to find out what works best for you.

  • @apefos,

    Thanks, I appreciate that very much. I am still going through all of picture profiles looking at the pluses and minuses. However, like you mentioned previously, -1 and -2 for sharpness and 0 and +1 for contrast are the settings I go back and forth with. Sometimes I think I can see sharpening artifacts in the "-1" sharpness setting, sometimes I don't. With the Contrast, sometimes "+1" makes the blacks look a little too crushed, sometimes it doesn't.

    I appreciate the DRO iso info, I haven't had to use anything above iso 600 so far so knowing what you have found with the 5n is very helpful. All of the lenses i use for indoor/ low light are relatively fast. I have a Zeiss 50mm 1.4 ZF.2, Voightlander 58mm 1.4 SLII Nokton, Contax Zeiss 85mm 1.4 MMJ and a Nikon 105mm 1.8 Ais. I have other lenses, but I don't use them for indoor/ lowlight work.

    I also use, again as you mentioned, Neutral density filters. They range from a 52mm Tiffen set of from .3 to 2.1 a 72mm Tiffen set of from .3 to 1.2 and a 77mm Tiffen IR/ND set of from 1.5 to 2.1. I will try the "standand' picture profile since it seems we have come to some of the same conclusions you much earlier than I with the 5n.

    It's also good to know that you as an owner of the GH2 found that the Idynamic function on the gh2 was noiser than the DRO function on the A6000. That was something I was interested in knowing but I didn't have a GH2 to test that theory with. I have also just learned from you that the Idynamic function was not manual like sony's DRO function, that was something again i didn't know. Thanks for this info.

    like everyone else, the Panasonic GH series cameras were something I wanted because of their high bit rate and sharpness. I owned a GH1(7) for a short time and even with its 1.86X crop factor due to its M.A.R. sensor, high bit rate and sharpness, I still prefered the 1.6X APS-C FOV of the 7D I sold to get it.

    I also loved the depth of field, not too much(full frame) and not enough( 2X crop MFT). I believe the metabones speedbooster and other focal reducers will give the the GH2 either a true super 35mm film crop factor of 1.42/1.45 or even a less crop factor.

  • @bleach551 thanks a lot for the in depth info. I come from 7D,D5200,GH2 so I'm still trying to get a grip on settings to produce my desired image. So if I hear you correct instead of decreasing your contrast and applying DRO you prefer to leave it centered then add DRO if you choose to use it? I would think in low light situations using DRO with this particular codec would not be such a good idea,do to potential noise introduction in the shadows. Have you found with contrast centered using DRO in low light there are real benefits?